Yellow/brown leaves curling and dying - Aquaponic Gardening2024-03-29T05:44:30Zhttps://aquaponicgardening.ning.com/forum/topics/yellow-brown-leaves-curling-and-dying?commentId=4778851%3AComment%3A379314&feed=yes&xn_auth=noI guess since were sort of on…tag:aquaponicgardening.ning.com,2012-08-04:4778851:Comment:3794212012-08-04T05:13:12.181ZVlad Jovanovichttps://aquaponicgardening.ning.com/profile/VladJovanovic
<p>I guess since were sort of on the topic of buffers and non leafy green plants...A really good plan as far as a buffering regime would be to alternate/rotate between using three different buffers. Potassium bi-carb (for the K), Dolomitic lime (for the Mg), and then a 'regular' calcium based lime. This seems like it should go a ways, when growing plants with high Mg and K requirements. Many longstanding and experienced aquapons seem do this already (lest anyone should think it was just one of…</p>
<p>I guess since were sort of on the topic of buffers and non leafy green plants...A really good plan as far as a buffering regime would be to alternate/rotate between using three different buffers. Potassium bi-carb (for the K), Dolomitic lime (for the Mg), and then a 'regular' calcium based lime. This seems like it should go a ways, when growing plants with high Mg and K requirements. Many longstanding and experienced aquapons seem do this already (lest anyone should think it was just one of my whacky ideas :) ...</p>
<p></p> If you mean systematic applic…tag:aquaponicgardening.ning.com,2012-08-04:4778851:Comment:3792962012-08-04T04:35:43.098ZVlad Jovanovichttps://aquaponicgardening.ning.com/profile/VladJovanovic
<p>If you mean systematic application as a buffer, no. I don't think system water would benefit much from a fungicidal aspect. It seems to me that much of the fungicidal effect of KHCO3 comes from the fact that it will raise the pH on the surface of the leaf beyond what the fungi can deal with. As a buffer you'd never get into that pH territory.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>If you mean systematic application as a buffer, no. I don't think system water would benefit much from a fungicidal aspect. It seems to me that much of the fungicidal effect of KHCO3 comes from the fact that it will raise the pH on the surface of the leaf beyond what the fungi can deal with. As a buffer you'd never get into that pH territory.</p>
<p> </p> Good day.
Vlad since Potassi…tag:aquaponicgardening.ning.com,2012-08-03:4778851:Comment:3790972012-08-03T22:24:56.003ZKenneth J Roche'https://aquaponicgardening.ning.com/profile/KennethJRoche
<p>Good day.</p>
<p> Vlad since Potassium Bi-carb is also used as a fungicide have you observed any suppression of funguses in cucurbits thru the systemic application when Potassium Bi-carb is used as ph buffer?</p>
<p>thank you,</p>
<p>kenny<a style="cursor: pointer;"><img src="http://www.bkserv.net/images/Grin.gif"/></a></p>
<p>Good day.</p>
<p> Vlad since Potassium Bi-carb is also used as a fungicide have you observed any suppression of funguses in cucurbits thru the systemic application when Potassium Bi-carb is used as ph buffer?</p>
<p>thank you,</p>
<p>kenny<a style="cursor: pointer;"><img src="http://www.bkserv.net/images/Grin.gif"/></a></p> If your getting the potassium…tag:aquaponicgardening.ning.com,2012-08-03:4778851:Comment:3792822012-08-03T21:35:42.077ZVlad Jovanovichttps://aquaponicgardening.ning.com/profile/VladJovanovic
<p>If your getting the potassium bi-carb just stick with that. No reason then to mess with the potassium hydroxide then. To make a long story short, basically they'll do the same thing, only the hydroxide version is <em>very</em> strong and very caustic. So it needs to be diluted to a 'safe' pH. The bicarb is already at about the 'right' pH (8 or so) and is so is not dangerously caustic. </p>
<p>If you have some Epsom salt to add for Mg it is an ok and fish safe source (Epsom salt... MgSO4-7H2O…</p>
<p>If your getting the potassium bi-carb just stick with that. No reason then to mess with the potassium hydroxide then. To make a long story short, basically they'll do the same thing, only the hydroxide version is <em>very</em> strong and very caustic. So it needs to be diluted to a 'safe' pH. The bicarb is already at about the 'right' pH (8 or so) and is so is not dangerously caustic. </p>
<p>If you have some Epsom salt to add for Mg it is an ok and fish safe source (Epsom salt... MgSO4-7H2O is about 10% Mg content). You can use the search field in the upper right hand corner to find one of the 'walk-through threads' on how much Epsom to add etc...if you wish.</p>
<p>If you should need to buffer up your systems pH, just use the potassium bi-carb, that should help with the K deficiencies. Those two will help add some of that needed Mg and K your cucurbits need. It could only help in their recuperation. Cukes, squash, zucchini really are hogs when it comes to Mg and K. They generally need as much K as they do N. And as much Mg as they need Ca. Which in the crop/plant world is really <em>quite</em> high...They are very heavy hitters. Luckilly this can easily be accommodated.</p>
<p>When you say "fish fertilizer" what exactly does that mean?</p> Ya, my sister has it. Have to…tag:aquaponicgardening.ning.com,2012-08-03:4778851:Comment:3790882012-08-03T19:08:35.513ZJames (Jamie) Barbariahttps://aquaponicgardening.ning.com/profile/JamesJamieBarbaria
<p>Ya, my sister has it. Have to get it back. Course I cut all the leaves off. I suspect there will be more, though. I have added maxi crop w/ iron, fish fertilizer. I am getting some potassium bicarbonate today. Hopefully they will have just straight chelated iron. I did pull out about half of the plants also. Was overcrowded. Do I get the potassium hydroxide at the hardware or garden store also and what is it for?</p>
<p>Ya, my sister has it. Have to get it back. Course I cut all the leaves off. I suspect there will be more, though. I have added maxi crop w/ iron, fish fertilizer. I am getting some potassium bicarbonate today. Hopefully they will have just straight chelated iron. I did pull out about half of the plants also. Was overcrowded. Do I get the potassium hydroxide at the hardware or garden store also and what is it for?</p> I take it you don't own a dig…tag:aquaponicgardening.ning.com,2012-08-03:4778851:Comment:3792722012-08-03T18:56:38.607ZVlad Jovanovichttps://aquaponicgardening.ning.com/profile/VladJovanovic
<p>I take it you don't own a digital camera hehe :)</p>
<p>Ok, so there's a greyish powder (is it kinda fuzzy when you look closely or with a magnifying glass)?</p>
<p>And they go limp real fast...like a wilted mushy limp? If that is the case that sounds like botrytis (grey mold). Botrytis seems to be an opportunistic fungus that will attack weak, malnourished or injured plants. Especially if they are packed in real close. I've only really dealt with it once on one plant. (Powdery mildew is a…</p>
<p>I take it you don't own a digital camera hehe :)</p>
<p>Ok, so there's a greyish powder (is it kinda fuzzy when you look closely or with a magnifying glass)?</p>
<p>And they go limp real fast...like a wilted mushy limp? If that is the case that sounds like botrytis (grey mold). Botrytis seems to be an opportunistic fungus that will attack weak, malnourished or injured plants. Especially if they are packed in real close. I've only really dealt with it once on one plant. (Powdery mildew is a much bigger and more common problem for me here)...</p>
<p>At any rate, I'm sorry to hear your plants are not doing so well. I don't think you'd like or want to hear anything else I'd have to say :)</p>
<p>Maybe you pull out the hopeless and try battling it with potassium bi-carb, or dilute potassium hydroxide to a pH of 8 to 8.4 and spray the leaves (that's how I successfully dealt with my bout the on time)</p>
<p>But, I sorta feel like without addressing your nutrient situation it might be kind of a lost cause. IDK. Good luck.</p> Nearly as soon as the leaves…tag:aquaponicgardening.ning.com,2012-08-03:4778851:Comment:3791862012-08-03T18:29:27.742ZJames (Jamie) Barbariahttps://aquaponicgardening.ning.com/profile/JamesJamieBarbaria
<p>Nearly as soon as the leaves get spotchy they go limp and just curl up to nothing. They don't stay stiff with leasions or anything like that. They go completely limp. Shrivel up and die. But before hand it looks like this morning a greyish powder on edges or up the middle. Either way. Just depended on the leaf. But indeed it does not take them but a few hours to just go completely limp and curl up to nothing.</p>
<p>Nearly as soon as the leaves get spotchy they go limp and just curl up to nothing. They don't stay stiff with leasions or anything like that. They go completely limp. Shrivel up and die. But before hand it looks like this morning a greyish powder on edges or up the middle. Either way. Just depended on the leaf. But indeed it does not take them but a few hours to just go completely limp and curl up to nothing.</p> James (Jamie) Barbaria said…tag:aquaponicgardening.ning.com,2012-08-03:4778851:Comment:3791812012-08-03T17:05:56.541ZJames (Jamie) Barbariahttps://aquaponicgardening.ning.com/profile/JamesJamieBarbaria
<p><br></br> <br></br> <cite>James (Jamie) Barbaria said:</cite></p>
<blockquote cite="http://community.theaquaponicsource.com/forum/comment/show?id=4778851%3AComment%3A379318&xn_out=json&firstPage=1&lastPage=1&xg_token=fb6a41d0d476099a2703102228188e66&_=1344013372866#4778851Comment379318"><div><p><br></br> <br></br> <cite>Vlad Jovanovic said:…</cite></p>
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<p><br/> <br/> <cite>James (Jamie) Barbaria said:</cite></p>
<blockquote cite="http://community.theaquaponicsource.com/forum/comment/show?id=4778851%3AComment%3A379318&xn_out=json&firstPage=1&lastPage=1&xg_token=fb6a41d0d476099a2703102228188e66&_=1344013372866#4778851Comment379318"><div><p><br/> <br/> <cite>Vlad Jovanovic said:</cite></p>
<blockquote cite="http://community.theaquaponicsource.com/forum/topics/yellow-brown-leaves-curling-and-dying?commentId=4778851%3AComment%3A379162#4778851Comment379314"><div><div class="xg_user_generated"><p>Powdery mildew (Blumeria graminis) look like whitish patches on the leaves, and is one of the very few fungal diseases that do not require that the leaf be wet in order for it to take hold...You mentioned yellowing (downy mildew looks like little yellow patches, but again, so does a <strong>ton</strong> of other stuff that may fit that word description...without pics, who knows...</p>
<p>Fungal diseases notwithstanding...No, you are probably NOT going to get enough Mg or even K out of fish feed/poo in a heavily stocked (plants) and new system in the first couple of months to support the plants you mentioned. There is a very good reason people either stick to leafy greens the first year or so, or come up with a good buffering/additive regime and/or cater to the needs of such heavy feeding plants, or plant way less...or all three.</p>
<p>Cucumbers, zucchini and squash (all the things you mentioned) are the Chevelle 442's of the gardening kingdom (with tomatoes being slightly less guzzling). It seems unrealistic (depending on how you cycled, and how you operate your system) for a brand new AP system to support many, or even any (again, depending on how/what you operate) of those kinds of plants until your system matures. Nitrates alone are hardly enough. (Imagine you trying to live from birth to toddler to puberty on milk alone)...It either takes time, or added intervention on your part to pull off something like that. </p>
<p>Don't get discouraged, just take it back down to Earth because you probably dont have the fuel to power those beasts.</p>
<p>How many of those plants total do you have anyway? Everything does well when they are just seedlings/young plants...</p>
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<p>So what additives to I need to add to supplement. I have the maxicrop w/ iron. I also have alaskan fish fertilizer. What else do I need to add to assist in supplementing once I thin them out more?</p>
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</blockquote> Vlad Jovanovic said:
Powder…tag:aquaponicgardening.ning.com,2012-08-03:4778851:Comment:3793182012-08-03T17:03:04.784ZJames (Jamie) Barbariahttps://aquaponicgardening.ning.com/profile/JamesJamieBarbaria
<p><br></br> <br></br> <cite>Vlad Jovanovic said:</cite></p>
<blockquote cite="http://community.theaquaponicsource.com/forum/topics/yellow-brown-leaves-curling-and-dying?commentId=4778851%3AComment%3A379162#4778851Comment379314"><div><div class="xg_user_generated"><p>Powdery mildew (Blumeria graminis) look like whitish patches on the leaves, and is one of the very few fungal diseases that do not require that the leaf be wet in order for it to take hold...You mentioned yellowing (downy mildew looks like…</p>
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<p><br/> <br/> <cite>Vlad Jovanovic said:</cite></p>
<blockquote cite="http://community.theaquaponicsource.com/forum/topics/yellow-brown-leaves-curling-and-dying?commentId=4778851%3AComment%3A379162#4778851Comment379314"><div><div class="xg_user_generated"><p>Powdery mildew (Blumeria graminis) look like whitish patches on the leaves, and is one of the very few fungal diseases that do not require that the leaf be wet in order for it to take hold...You mentioned yellowing (downy mildew looks like little yellow patches, but again, so does a <strong>ton</strong> of other stuff that may fit that word description...without pics, who knows...</p>
<p>Fungal diseases notwithstanding...No, you are probably NOT going to get enough Mg or even K out of fish feed/poo in a heavily stocked (plants) and new system in the first couple of months to support the plants you mentioned. There is a very good reason people either stick to leafy greens the first year or so, or come up with a good buffering/additive regime and/or cater to the needs of such heavy feeding plants, or plant way less...or all three.</p>
<p>Cucumbers, zucchini and squash (all the things you mentioned) are the Chevelle 442's of the gardening kingdom (with tomatoes being slightly less guzzling). It seems unrealistic (depending on how you cycled, and how you operate your system) for a brand new AP system to support many, or even any (again, depending on how/what you operate) of those kinds of plants until your system matures. Nitrates alone are hardly enough. (Imagine you trying to live from birth to toddler to puberty on milk alone)...It either takes time, or added intervention on your part to pull off something like that. </p>
<p>Don't get discouraged, just take it back down to Earth because you probably dont have the fuel to power those beasts.</p>
<p>How many of those plants total do you have anyway? Everything does well when they are just seedlings/young plants...</p>
<p>I didn't mean nutes from the fish themselves but from alaskan fish fertilizer. Nitrogen, magnesium, etc. Ya, I'm sure I have to many. I already thinned them out just a bit ago. Will do some more tonight after work. My nitrates, though, are off the charts. Still, though once they really start needing them is when I'm sure it'll crash down to not enough. If my fish were bigger yet but they are still small. Live and learn. I'll thin the heard and hopefully. I literally cut most all the leaves of the remaining plants. Sprayed them with milk, water and baking soda. Will that help.</p>
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</blockquote> Powdery mildew (Blumeria gram…tag:aquaponicgardening.ning.com,2012-08-03:4778851:Comment:3793142012-08-03T15:14:05.770ZVlad Jovanovichttps://aquaponicgardening.ning.com/profile/VladJovanovic
<p>Powdery mildew (Blumeria graminis) look like whitish patches on the leaves, and is one of the very few fungal diseases that do not require that the leaf be wet in order for it to take hold...You mentioned yellowing (downy mildew looks like little yellow patches, but again, so does a <strong>ton</strong> of other stuff that may fit that word description...without pics, who knows...</p>
<p>Fungal diseases notwithstanding...No, you are probably NOT going to get enough Mg or even K out of fish…</p>
<p>Powdery mildew (Blumeria graminis) look like whitish patches on the leaves, and is one of the very few fungal diseases that do not require that the leaf be wet in order for it to take hold...You mentioned yellowing (downy mildew looks like little yellow patches, but again, so does a <strong>ton</strong> of other stuff that may fit that word description...without pics, who knows...</p>
<p>Fungal diseases notwithstanding...No, you are probably NOT going to get enough Mg or even K out of fish feed/poo in a heavily stocked (plants) and new system in the first couple of months to support the plants you mentioned. There is a very good reason people either stick to leafy greens the first year or so, or come up with a good buffering/additive regime and/or cater to the needs of such heavy feeding plants, or plant way less...or all three.</p>
<p>Cucumbers, zucchini and squash (all the things you mentioned) are the Chevelle 442's of the gardening kingdom (with tomatoes being slightly less guzzling). It seems unrealistic (depending on how you cycled, and how you operate your system) for a brand new AP system to support many, or even any (again, depending on how/what you operate) of those kinds of plants until your system matures. Nitrates alone are hardly enough. (Imagine you trying to live from birth to toddler to puberty on milk alone)...It either takes time, or added intervention on your part to pull off something like that. </p>
<p>Don't get discouraged, just take it back down to Earth because you probably dont have the fuel to power those beasts.</p>
<p>How many of those plants total do you have anyway? Everything does well when they are just seedlings/young plants...</p>
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