Worm Leachate - Aquaponic Gardening2024-03-28T14:49:17Zhttps://aquaponicgardening.ning.com/forum/topics/worm-leachate?commentId=4778851%3AComment%3A273862&feed=yes&xn_auth=no Yup! It should work fine.…tag:aquaponicgardening.ning.com,2012-01-20:4778851:Comment:2809692012-01-20T18:32:04.562ZConversehttps://aquaponicgardening.ning.com/profile/Converse
<p> Yup! It should work fine. The rounded sides will allow for areation and worm crawling spaces...but you'd be surprized what redworms can get through!</p>
<p> Best to you in this. Let us know how it goes!<br></br> <br></br> <cite>Gary P said:</cite></p>
<blockquote cite="http://aquaponicscommunity.com/forum/topics/worm-leachate?xg_source=activity#4778851Comment280616"><div><div class="xg_user_generated"><p>Converse,</p>
<p>If you use redworms in the growing beds, is it possible to use a smaller…</p>
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<p> Yup! It should work fine. The rounded sides will allow for areation and worm crawling spaces...but you'd be surprized what redworms can get through!</p>
<p> Best to you in this. Let us know how it goes!<br/> <br/> <cite>Gary P said:</cite></p>
<blockquote cite="http://aquaponicscommunity.com/forum/topics/worm-leachate?xg_source=activity#4778851Comment280616"><div><div class="xg_user_generated"><p>Converse,</p>
<p>If you use redworms in the growing beds, is it possible to use a smaller gravel than 3/4 inch. I have about 15 tons of washed river rock, but it is 1/2 inch or less?</p>
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</blockquote> Daniel,
This is an Aqu…tag:aquaponicgardening.ning.com,2012-01-20:4778851:Comment:2809622012-01-20T18:01:27.137ZConversehttps://aquaponicgardening.ning.com/profile/Converse
<p> Daniel,</p>
<p> This is an Aquaponics Fourm. I will answer this here, but further answers regarding vermiponics need to be done off this forum, lest Sylvia need to scold us.</p>
<p> If I understand correctly, you feel you do not have a high enough redworm population to give you the castings needed to create the plant growth you expect.</p>
<p> If you do not have enough redworms in your media beds, and you are making tea, it is apearent that you either are buying castings (…</p>
<p> Daniel,</p>
<p> This is an Aquaponics Fourm. I will answer this here, but further answers regarding vermiponics need to be done off this forum, lest Sylvia need to scold us.</p>
<p> If I understand correctly, you feel you do not have a high enough redworm population to give you the castings needed to create the plant growth you expect.</p>
<p> If you do not have enough redworms in your media beds, and you are making tea, it is apearent that you either are buying castings ( expensive) or you have composting worms elsewhere at your disposal.Buyning castings is not cheap. If you have redworms elsewhere you can use those to boost your media bed population.</p>
<p> </p>
<p> My first inclination is to tell you to not add castings. Remember, redworms will not thrive/live in a concentration of their own castings. By adding castings or tea you may be hurting your redworm population growth. Of course, the whole reason for doing this is to grow food, which would be why you're wanting to add the worm castings tea. Do you have time to let the worm population grow in the beds? If growing vegetables fast is needed, you could keep doing what you are doing AND add the worm casting tea plus this: Grow a worm population in a separate bin experiencing indoor temps (faster reproduction) and then add them to your media beds. At some point your redworm population will be high enough you should be able to stop adding castings or tea to get the needed plant growth.. I'd be concentrating on making conditions favorable for population growth. What species of worm do you have in your beds? What is your temperature variation right now (ambient and water temp)? Feedstocks? Remember, typically a pound of redworms will consume 1/2 pound of food a day. There are many, many foodstocks you can use. Redworms are much easier and less expensive to feed than fish. Without seeing your system it would be hard to tell if it is just limited feed or a combination of things that is causing your population of redworms to be less than you wanted....Even though redworms are fast reproducers (they leave rabbits in the dust!) it still does take time to build up a population of redworms. There are as many approaches to vermiponics as there are to aquaponics systems designs.</p>
<p> If you need more answers contact me through messaging so we can keep this thread about AP. I hope this is helpful.</p> Thank you Converse,
But in yo…tag:aquaponicgardening.ning.com,2012-01-20:4778851:Comment:2809532012-01-20T16:51:38.790ZDaniel Gunlochehttps://aquaponicgardening.ning.com/profile/DanielGunloche
<p>Thank you Converse,</p>
<p>But in your opinion, do you think there is enough material in my beds to feed very many worms without fish in the equation? I am thinking I need to add some castings because my worm population in the beds will be a bit thin.</p>
<p>The way my beds are built - it is almost impossable to get castings in them without making a huge mess, so my only other alternative (thus far anyway) is to do a worm tea.</p>
<p>Your input is greatly…</p>
<p>Thank you Converse,</p>
<p>But in your opinion, do you think there is enough material in my beds to feed very many worms without fish in the equation? I am thinking I need to add some castings because my worm population in the beds will be a bit thin.</p>
<p>The way my beds are built - it is almost impossable to get castings in them without making a huge mess, so my only other alternative (thus far anyway) is to do a worm tea.</p>
<p>Your input is greatly appreciated.</p>
<p>Thanks</p>
<p>Dan<br/><br/><cite>Converse said:</cite></p>
<blockquote cite="http://aquaponicscommunity.com/forum/topics/worm-leachate?commentId=4778851%3AComment%3A280599&xg_source=msg_com_forum#4778851Comment280599"><div><div class="xg_user_generated"><p> I am very familiar with vermiponics. I don't do pee-ponics, but have read a bit about it. The family would not let that one get by! I do have vermiponics running here on our redworm farm .</p>
<p> Worm casting tea/worm castings.... I believe we are talking about two different things. Adding Worm casting Tea to an AP media bed is a something different than adding worm castings to an AP Media bed. (This is an AP Forum). Yes, worm castings are fantastic for plant growth. They are a power house of plant available nutrients. You can add worm castings to your media bed, but if you have a healthy redworm population in there doing their work, you should not need to add any. If operating on a 'if some is good, more is better' motto, adding worm castings makes sense. There is a point at which the high concentration of nutrients in the castings may not be what you would want your plants to have. I am referring to the research from the Ohio State Univ. Soils Lab (a highly world-wide respected vermiculture program there). Their research is available online. It can be very heavy reading, but is something I make a point to keep up on. But if that is not something you want to spend your time wading through, even the photos in the research speak loudly about the effects of high concentrations of castings on different types of plants. I realize, Daniel, you are familair with the nutritent content of worm castings, but for the benefit of other readers, worm castings typically have a very high in nitrogent content. I do adjust the worm castings used to suit what I want to see in plant growth in my soil gardens, and the same can be done in vermiponics. And the same for AP. So "more is better" is not always the answer with worm castings. However, for the benefit of other readers, worm castings in ANY concentration will not harm plants.</p>
<p> When you do add worm castings to an AP media bed, know the source. There have been discussions about worm castings from redworms fed vegetation feedstocks as opposed to manure feedstocks. I won't go into that here, but look that discussion up on this forum for more info... Either are great for plant growth. In AP it is a matter of an arising concern for safety, which has been voiced. Of course, if the worm castings are created on your own place by your own redworms you know how the worm castings were generated.</p>
<p> Hopefully I have addressed the issue fully for you.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>__________________ ___________________________ __________________ ____________________<br/> <br/><cite>Daniel Gunloche said:</cite></p>
<blockquote cite="http://aquaponicscommunity.com/forum/topics/worm-leachate?xg_source=activity&id=4778851%3ATopic%3A273595&page=2#4778851Comment280930"><div><div class="xg_user_generated"><p>Being the best plant food available - Why would you not add castings into the growing media? </p>
<p>Let me clarify also - I am not doing AP (I know I said that) but Vermiponics and peeponics. So I really don't have enough food to keep very many worms happy and fat in my beds.</p>
<p>From what I understand you can't have too much worm castings in the media beds?</p>
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</blockquote> I am very familiar wit…tag:aquaponicgardening.ning.com,2012-01-20:4778851:Comment:2805992012-01-20T16:41:37.012ZConversehttps://aquaponicgardening.ning.com/profile/Converse
<p> I am very familiar with vermiponics. I don't do pee-ponics, but have read a bit about it. The family would not let that one get by! I do have vermiponics running here on our redworm farm .</p>
<p> Worm casting tea/worm castings.... I believe we are talking about two different things. Adding Worm casting Tea to an AP media bed is a something different than adding worm castings to an AP Media bed. (This is an AP Forum). Yes, worm castings are fantastic for plant…</p>
<p> I am very familiar with vermiponics. I don't do pee-ponics, but have read a bit about it. The family would not let that one get by! I do have vermiponics running here on our redworm farm .</p>
<p> Worm casting tea/worm castings.... I believe we are talking about two different things. Adding Worm casting Tea to an AP media bed is a something different than adding worm castings to an AP Media bed. (This is an AP Forum). Yes, worm castings are fantastic for plant growth. They are a power house of plant available nutrients. You can add worm castings to your media bed, but if you have a healthy redworm population in there doing their work, you should not need to add any. If operating on a 'if some is good, more is better' motto, adding worm castings makes sense. There is a point at which the high concentration of nutrients in the castings may not be what you would want your plants to have. I am referring to the research from the Ohio State Univ. Soils Lab (a highly world-wide respected vermiculture program there). Their research is available online. It can be very heavy reading, but is something I make a point to keep up on. But if that is not something you want to spend your time wading through, even the photos in the research speak loudly about the effects of high concentrations of castings on different types of plants. I realize, Daniel, you are familair with the nutritent content of worm castings, but for the benefit of other readers, worm castings typically have a very high nitrogent content, as well as high nutrients across the spectrum.. I do adjust the worm castings used to suit what I want to see in plant growth in my soil gardens, and the same can be done in vermiponics. And the same for AP. So "more is better" is not always the answer with worm castings. However, for the benefit of other readers, worm castings in ANY concentration will not harm plants.</p>
<p> When you do add worm castings to an AP media bed, know the source. There have been discussions about worm castings from redworms fed vegetation feedstocks as opposed to manure feedstocks. I won't go into that here, but look that discussion up on this forum for more info... Either are great for plant growth. In AP it is a matter of an arising concern for safety, which has been voiced. Of course, if the worm castings are created on your own place by your own redworms you know how the worm castings were generated.</p>
<p> Hopefully I have addressed the issue fully for you.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>__________________ ___________________________ __________________ ____________________<br/> <br/> <cite>Daniel Gunloche said:</cite></p>
<blockquote cite="http://aquaponicscommunity.com/forum/topics/worm-leachate?xg_source=activity&id=4778851%3ATopic%3A273595&page=2#4778851Comment280930"><div><div class="xg_user_generated"><p>Being the best plant food available - Why would you not add castings into the growing media? </p>
<p>Let me clarify also - I am not doing AP (I know I said that) but Vermiponics and peeponics. So I really don't have enough food to keep very many worms happy and fat in my beds.</p>
<p>From what I understand you can't have too much worm castings in the media beds?</p>
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Mary: When you add red…tag:aquaponicgardening.ning.com,2012-01-20:4778851:Comment:2810132012-01-20T15:38:57.692ZConversehttps://aquaponicgardening.ning.com/profile/Converse
<p> </p>
<p> </p>
<p> Mary: When you add redworms to your media beds you can either leave them on top or dig a hole and plop (gently) them in. Redworms are extremely light sensitive and will scramble to get subsurface a.s.a.p.. Some people like to watch this process. Either is fine. </p>
<p> As far as progress with the redworms goes...do not go digging around in your media beds to monitor their progress. Redworms do not like to be disturbed much. Yes, it is tempting, but you will…</p>
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<p> Mary: When you add redworms to your media beds you can either leave them on top or dig a hole and plop (gently) them in. Redworms are extremely light sensitive and will scramble to get subsurface a.s.a.p.. Some people like to watch this process. Either is fine. </p>
<p> As far as progress with the redworms goes...do not go digging around in your media beds to monitor their progress. Redworms do not like to be disturbed much. Yes, it is tempting, but you will have to trust that these little worms will be down in your media doing what redworms are supposed to do, rather than slacking off in some corner playing cards or teasing your fish from the top of the tanks when you are not looking. Once you add your redworms it will take between 1 -3 weeks for them to "settle in", getting used to the new surroundings, the pH, Temps, etc.. During this adjustment time they will not be eating much or consuming much. After that they will begin eating and reproducing normally. Redworms react to disturbances as if they are being threatened. They will leave the area/spot where the disturbance occurrs, temporarily. If the disturbance is constant they will stop eating and reproducing. Normal care and work in media beds is okay. Just do not go poking around in the media beds trying to find them. They will react by "squirming away for their lives".</p>
<p> One of the biggest signs that something is not right in your media beds for the redworms is if they leave en-mass. You may have some wander a bit the first few days...this does not count. If you have a mass exodus, or they are all surfacing, that is when you need to look at what is going on. It usually indicates that there is too high of a castings concentration in the beds, or the bed is anaerobic. After they have adjusted you will notice more surfacing if a problem begins to arise, before the mass exodos event...Just be sure that if you have a generator or other constantly vibrating equipment it is not sending those vibrations to your media beds...that will cause epic worm migration. Vibrations are how redworms detect they are being persued by a predator (bird hopping on the surface or mole digging in the soil). This is when you find out how fast redworms can really travel. Keep the redworms away from vibrating equipment.</p>
<p> When you remove plants from your media beds, or plant new ones, or add seeds, you will see your friends in there doing their job. You may also notice some pearlescent yellowish/greenish to brownish grape seed sized and shaped orbs in there. Those are the redworm cocoons. All signs things are going well down in the media for your redworms. The cocoons start out rather pearlescent greenish and turn brownish the closer the time for the juvenile redworms to emerge approaches.</p>
<p> Hopefully this helps. Let me know if you have any more questions.</p> Being the best plant food ava…tag:aquaponicgardening.ning.com,2012-01-20:4778851:Comment:2809302012-01-20T15:23:59.322ZDaniel Gunlochehttps://aquaponicgardening.ning.com/profile/DanielGunloche
<p>Being the best plant food available - Why would you not add castings into the growing media? </p>
<p>Let me clarify also - I am not doing AP (I know I said that) but Vermiponics and peeponics. So I really don't have enough food to keep very many worms happy and fat in my beds.</p>
<p>From what I understand you can't have too much worm castings in the media beds?</p>
<p>Being the best plant food available - Why would you not add castings into the growing media? </p>
<p>Let me clarify also - I am not doing AP (I know I said that) but Vermiponics and peeponics. So I really don't have enough food to keep very many worms happy and fat in my beds.</p>
<p>From what I understand you can't have too much worm castings in the media beds?</p> First off, for those of y…tag:aquaponicgardening.ning.com,2012-01-20:4778851:Comment:2808612012-01-20T15:07:20.264ZConversehttps://aquaponicgardening.ning.com/profile/Converse
<p> First off, for those of you new to all this, TDS is Total Dissolved Solids (another thing to add to our growing glossary I suppose). </p>
<p> Hopefully I have not given the impression that we need to add worm casting tea to our AP systems where we already have redworms living in the media. Personally, I would not add any worm casting tea into the water or the media...</p>
<p>.What you would make worm casting tea for would be the following:</p>
<p> - To spray seeds before…</p>
<p> First off, for those of you new to all this, TDS is Total Dissolved Solids (another thing to add to our growing glossary I suppose). </p>
<p> Hopefully I have not given the impression that we need to add worm casting tea to our AP systems where we already have redworms living in the media. Personally, I would not add any worm casting tea into the water or the media...</p>
<p>.What you would make worm casting tea for would be the following:</p>
<p> - To spray seeds before planting (the naturally occurring auxins and gibberellins (natural plant growth hormones) hormones will in crease germination success and lower germination time. This works great when starting seeds in little pots or plugs, or in regular soil gardening.</p>
<p> - For foliar feeding of your plants</p>
<p> - To control pest insects. Gets rid of aphids, spider mites, tomatoe horn worms and a whole host of hard bodied insects</p>
<p> - To stop and prevent black spot, podwery mildew, damping off, tomato blight and more plant maladies..</p>
<p> The tea needs to be brewed ( if you need directions lt me know) rather than just soaked if you want to use it for other than just the fabulous nutrietn boost worm castings will give plants.</p>
<p> </p>
<p> The reason you do not need to add worm casting tea to the media (if you have redworms there) is that the redworms are down in the media already "feeding" the roots of your plants with the castings (yes, it is worm poop) they leave behind; a</p>
<p>redundant effort if you add worm casting tea. </p>
<p> </p>
<p> As far as TDS goes with worm castings, if this is a factor in your system, you need to adjust things. The solids from the castings should stay put in the media. ...let me know if you need clarification on that.</p>
<p> </p> I know TDS is really not a re…tag:aquaponicgardening.ning.com,2012-01-20:4778851:Comment:2807182012-01-20T02:09:37.265ZDaniel Gunlochehttps://aquaponicgardening.ning.com/profile/DanielGunloche
<p>I know TDS is really not a relevent thing to monitor in AP, But has anyone noticed an increase in TDS when adding worm castings/tea? My TDS was staying around 300ppm, and now 4 days after adding castings (about 2lb in 200 gal) I checked and I read about 720ppm. - I guess I could check some straight tea here and see if it reads real high.... I may have answered my own question, but hey I'll post it anyway..... </p>
<p>Thanks</p>
<p>Dan</p>
<p>I know TDS is really not a relevent thing to monitor in AP, But has anyone noticed an increase in TDS when adding worm castings/tea? My TDS was staying around 300ppm, and now 4 days after adding castings (about 2lb in 200 gal) I checked and I read about 720ppm. - I guess I could check some straight tea here and see if it reads real high.... I may have answered my own question, but hey I'll post it anyway..... </p>
<p>Thanks</p>
<p>Dan</p> Converse...we just ordered la…tag:aquaponicgardening.ning.com,2012-01-20:4778851:Comment:2804382012-01-20T01:33:07.879Zmary proctorhttps://aquaponicgardening.ning.com/profile/maryproctor
<p>Converse...we just ordered last week 2000"RED WIGGLERS" for our 6 4'x3 1/2'clay pebble beds. We have the bell and siphon system. It takes about 10-12 minutes to fill and then to drain. Each one drains down to about 1" from bottom of bed. We have planned on dividing the wigglers up between the beds. Do we just lay the worms on the top of the bed and they work their way down in the clay pebbles or do we move the clay pebbles so many inches down and put them in and then cover very…</p>
<p>Converse...we just ordered last week 2000"RED WIGGLERS" for our 6 4'x3 1/2'clay pebble beds. We have the bell and siphon system. It takes about 10-12 minutes to fill and then to drain. Each one drains down to about 1" from bottom of bed. We have planned on dividing the wigglers up between the beds. Do we just lay the worms on the top of the bed and they work their way down in the clay pebbles or do we move the clay pebbles so many inches down and put them in and then cover very gently? We are excited about the worms eating the fish waste and creating new beneficial bacteria in our beds for both worms and plants. Any advice on monitoring the worms progress or potential problems they are having. You said that as long as they have oxygen they will thrive etc. Thanks for your help we have been in aquaponics now for about7-8 months. Trial and error but great fun. Mary<br/><br/><cite>Converse said:</cite></p>
<blockquote cite="http://aquaponicscommunity.com/forum/topics/worm-leachate#4778851Comment273739"><div><div class="xg_user_generated"><p></p>
<p>Greetings,</p>
<p> Approaching things “outside the box” is often the way things end up improved. Congratulations for this. I can answer your questions and address your idea. This way you may be able to approach your idea with more knowledge and maybe be able to re-think this. Who knows, you may come up with a fabulous break-through for AP!</p>
<p> By no means am I the fount of all knowledge concerning vermiculture, vermicomposting and such. I do however operate a large redworm farm, and do education on these subjects for groups, schools and gov’t agencies. I make it my business to go beyond my higher education background and keep up on the latest research on these subjects from respected sources of research around the world. And of course, I am an AP enthusiast, and have redworms as an integral part of my AP system.</p>
<p> First let’s be sure you are firm on the difference between “Leachate” and what you are calling “worm tea” (which is not made from worms, for you first-time readers. It is actually ‘worm casting tea’ and is made from worm castings). “Leachate” is what leached out, or drains out, from the redworm composting bed or bin. It is the result of too much moisture for the matter in the bed to hold. In a vermicomposting set-up there is a combination of matter that is food for the redworms which has not yet gone through the gut of the redworms, and then there is matter which has gone through the gut of the redworms (which comes out as worm castings – worm poop). Redworms are actually secondary decomposers, they do not have teeth. They rely on beneficial microbes working with them to “attack” the food in the bin first. It gets mushy, sometimes moldy, and generally disgusting. This is when the redworms can move in. During this time there may be moisture leaching/dripping from the container that the vermicomposting is happening in. This is NOT the stuff you want to use. This is because it potentially contains a lot of bacteria. Some good and some possibly really not good. Yes, many use this “leachate” on their gardens with impunity. But this is playing with fire. Leachate that collects and sits, in many ways is a petri dish bomb. This is NOT something you want to introduce to an AP system that you spent a lot of time, care and $$ getting up and running. Once all the food mater in your vermicomposting set-up has gone through the gut of the redworm, it is turned into worm castings, which are safe.</p>
<p> Aerating the leachate will not make it a non-issue. Yes, people who use leachate in their system are simply lucky. It is only a matter of time before something goes wrong. With all the care that goes in an AP system, and the fact that handling worm castings correctly is so EASY, it makes sense to just separate the castings and use those, and keep the system safe.</p>
<p> To address your ‘after thought’: Redworms cannot live in a concentration of their own poop – the castings. This is why we vermiculturists separate the redworms from the castings in the first place. If you do not, your redworms will attempt to leave, or die. So if you keep redworms in a bin to the point it is all castings, you will be killing some and all will be stressed, possibly to the point they will not eat or reproduce. Prior to this point many will have attempted to leave or will have left your bin. Worm castings look like fine coffee grounds, and basically have no noticeable odor. When a bin looks like it contains mostly castings it is time to separate the worm castings. It must be at this point you are considering flooding the bin. If you did it prior to this point, as far as conversion of the matter in your bin goes, you would be back to introducing bad bacteria and such since you are creating leachate, not worm casting tea. But if you waited for the bin to be converted completely to castings, you have just done your redworms a huge disservice.</p>
<p> Redworms can live a long time underwater as long as there is oxygen for them to absorb. They live for months at the bottom of ponds. Worm castings have a thin calcium coating on each granule (which is why it is recommended when making worm casting tea that castings be in the water for at least 12 hours). So your flooding and draining idea really is not a necessary thing. Why not simply and quickly separate the redworms from the matter in the bin, running the matter over a screen, and keep the castings that fall through? Then make worm casting tea. You won’t end up killing your redworm population, you’ll keep the cocoons, so you have repod for a healthy growing redworm population, and you’ll have the nutrient rich castings there in a neat pile waiting for you to use. No playing Russian Roulette with your AP system.</p>
<p> Once you are done with the flooding you suggest, you will have to dry out the matter in the bin to the proper moisture content creating the environment the redworms will eat and reproduce in and for the cocoons to hatch. A sopping wet vermicomposting environment will stay on the dangerous anaerobic side. You suggest dissolving the castings and mulch into the AP system. You do not want this dissolved “mulch” in your AP system .</p>
<p> Having redworms in an AP media bed is completely different than having them in a vermicomposting bin. First off, the redworms are working with the beneficial bacteria that have developed in the media bed, and they are consuming the fish wastes. There is no slimey broccoli stalks, and built up pocket of coffee grounds/bread crusts/carrot peels and apple cores as you’d have in a vermicomposting bin. The beneficial microbes and the redworms in AP media beds are keeping up with the fish wastes present. Redworms in media beds, and vermicomposting bins both are good things and can be beneficial to AP. But the traditional vermicomposting bin needs to be kept out of the AP system….unless you are a gambler. </p>
<p> This is not to discourage you from thinking outside the box. If anything I put here needs clarification, or if you have more questions, please let me know. Hopefully with this information you can re-think the matter, and maybe come up with a workable way to streamline the process. It seems that was your goal in the first place. So keep up the creative thinking. The world needs more people like you!</p>
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If you use redworms…tag:aquaponicgardening.ning.com,2012-01-20:4778851:Comment:2806162012-01-20T01:25:01.405ZGary Phttps://aquaponicgardening.ning.com/profile/GaryP
<p>Converse,</p>
<p>If you use redworms in the growing beds, is it possible to use a smaller gravel than 3/4 inch. I have about 15 tons of washed river rock, but it is 1/2 inch or less?</p>
<p>Converse,</p>
<p>If you use redworms in the growing beds, is it possible to use a smaller gravel than 3/4 inch. I have about 15 tons of washed river rock, but it is 1/2 inch or less?</p>