Winter System/Greenhouse Heating - Aquaponic Gardening2024-03-28T13:10:54Zhttps://aquaponicgardening.ning.com/forum/topics/winter-system-greenhouse-heating?commentId=4778851%3AComment%3A564138&feed=yes&xn_auth=noLike this beauty? Jeremiah R…tag:aquaponicgardening.ning.com,2014-05-22:4778851:Comment:5643082014-05-22T14:55:39.185ZJim Fiskhttps://aquaponicgardening.ning.com/profile/JimFisk
<p>Like this beauty?<a href="http://storage.ning.com/topology/rest/1.0/file/get/2772255910?profile=original" target="_self"><img class="align-full" src="http://storage.ning.com/topology/rest/1.0/file/get/2772255910?profile=original" width="700"></img></a> <br></br> <br></br> <cite>Jeremiah Robinson said:</cite></p>
<blockquote cite="http://community.theaquaponicsource.com/forum/topics/winter-system-greenhouse-heating?commentId=4778851%3AComment%3A564242&xg_source=msg_com_forum#4778851Comment564242"><div><div class="xg_user_generated"><p>You know, I'll bet the people who build…</p>
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<p>Like this beauty?<a target="_self" href="http://storage.ning.com/topology/rest/1.0/file/get/2772255910?profile=original"><img class="align-full" src="http://storage.ning.com/topology/rest/1.0/file/get/2772255910?profile=original" width="700"/></a><br/> <br/> <cite>Jeremiah Robinson said:</cite></p>
<blockquote cite="http://community.theaquaponicsource.com/forum/topics/winter-system-greenhouse-heating?commentId=4778851%3AComment%3A564242&xg_source=msg_com_forum#4778851Comment564242"><div><div class="xg_user_generated"><p>You know, I'll bet the people who build <span style="text-decoration: underline;"><strong><a rel="nofollow" href="http://www.mha-net.org/documents/what-is-a-masonry-heater/" target="_blank">masonry heaters</a></strong></span> could tell you how they deal with creosote.</p>
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</blockquote> BTW that Chinese GH design is…tag:aquaponicgardening.ning.com,2014-05-22:4778851:Comment:5641832014-05-22T14:49:30.086ZJim Fiskhttps://aquaponicgardening.ning.com/profile/JimFisk
<p>BTW that Chinese GH design is great but I would definitely add a partition between the grow room and the fish room as we have. Unless you plan on raising Tilapia there should be a way of maintaining cool in the FTs while keeping the hothouse hot. I seldom see that done and I don't get it. Here is a take off on the Chinese design by Friendly AP out of Hawaii and TN:<a href="http://storage.ning.com/topology/rest/1.0/file/get/2772255893?profile=original" target="_self"><img class="align-full" src="http://storage.ning.com/topology/rest/1.0/file/get/2772255893?profile=RESIZE_1024x1024" width="721"></img></a> This baby…</p>
<p>BTW that Chinese GH design is great but I would definitely add a partition between the grow room and the fish room as we have. Unless you plan on raising Tilapia there should be a way of maintaining cool in the FTs while keeping the hothouse hot. I seldom see that done and I don't get it. Here is a take off on the Chinese design by Friendly AP out of Hawaii and TN:<a target="_self" href="http://storage.ning.com/topology/rest/1.0/file/get/2772255893?profile=original"><img width="721" class="align-full" src="http://storage.ning.com/topology/rest/1.0/file/get/2772255893?profile=RESIZE_1024x1024" width="721"/></a>This baby is just dying for a N side fish room. Only thing missing IMHO.</p>
<p>Here is my design which should be completed by this Fall. The below grade cement block wall in front of the barrelponics is holding things up a bit. The fish room is insulated from the hot house. The reason I use so many methods of GBs is that I sell a lot of bell siphons all over the planet and I like to test all sizes I sell:<a target="_self" href="http://storage.ning.com/topology/rest/1.0/file/get/2730497130?profile=original"><img class="align-full" src="http://storage.ning.com/topology/rest/1.0/file/get/2730497130?profile=original" width="679"/></a></p> You know, I'll bet the people…tag:aquaponicgardening.ning.com,2014-05-22:4778851:Comment:5642422014-05-22T14:46:46.202ZJeremiah Robinsonhttps://aquaponicgardening.ning.com/profile/JeremiahRobinson
<p>You know, I'll bet the people who build <span style="text-decoration: underline;"><strong><a rel="nofollow" href="http://www.mha-net.org/documents/what-is-a-masonry-heater/" target="_blank">masonry heaters</a></strong></span> could tell you how they deal with creosote.</p>
<p>You know, I'll bet the people who build <span style="text-decoration: underline;"><strong><a rel="nofollow" href="http://www.mha-net.org/documents/what-is-a-masonry-heater/" target="_blank">masonry heaters</a></strong></span> could tell you how they deal with creosote.</p> Good to hear. The good news f…tag:aquaponicgardening.ning.com,2014-05-22:4778851:Comment:5643072014-05-22T14:30:57.175ZJim Fiskhttps://aquaponicgardening.ning.com/profile/JimFisk
<p>Good to hear. The good news for wood heat is that it is always growing. On our 7 acres we have not cut a tree yet that was not in need of cutting due to location, disease, old age in 5 years here. And the rest just keep growing. We propagate the most valuable ones and plant groves of locust, etc.</p>
<p>In our GH gasifier stove I will even burn pine that we would not burn in the main houses. Lots of BTU there. So you may have more good firewood than you think. AND it is the best way to take…</p>
<p>Good to hear. The good news for wood heat is that it is always growing. On our 7 acres we have not cut a tree yet that was not in need of cutting due to location, disease, old age in 5 years here. And the rest just keep growing. We propagate the most valuable ones and plant groves of locust, etc.</p>
<p>In our GH gasifier stove I will even burn pine that we would not burn in the main houses. Lots of BTU there. So you may have more good firewood than you think. AND it is the best way to take care of your trees however many you have. I see no lack of wood for the future and we only have about 4 acres in forest.</p>
<p>As to RMHs you should probably plan on a draft inducer blower for start ups. They are notoriously dirty at start up and will smoke you out of the GH until the flue gets hot enough to create a draft which can take 10 min or more. Slight redesign could fix the problems they have that people are reluctant to talk about. (occasionally I see an honest post on this) I have yet to hear how they are cleaned of creosote after a few years (and every wood stove WILL create some I guarantee it) with all that flue that is underground in a good MASS heater.</p>
<p>The new commercial wood gasifier boilers are far easier to maintain but run $8 - 12K. But you can heat your house and a garage and a GH and a shop simply by running underground pipes. We had a standard "Classic" outdoor boiler and I am here to say it was the dirties stove I have ever seen. I had to call the local fire dept and let them know where all that smoke was coming from before they sent out the troops. So stay away from the cheaper boilers. The gasifier models came out a few years later at double the cost and I can't justify the payback time. So I have gone back to my own designs that I can make for about $200.00 with some scrounging. A back yard design won second place in a national clean stove bake off last year so don't dismiss backyard innovations.<br/> <br/> <cite>Michael Mansur said:</cite></p>
<blockquote cite="http://community.theaquaponicsource.com/forum/topics/winter-system-greenhouse-heating?commentId=4778851%3AComment%3A564303&xg_source=msg_com_forum#4778851Comment564079"><div><div class="xg_user_generated"><p>yes sir, plenty of wood here. i probably have enough on my place to last several years. That's really why I thinking Rocket Mass Heater. Plenty of wood and it just looks like fun to build!</p>
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</blockquote> http://community.theaquaponic…tag:aquaponicgardening.ning.com,2014-05-22:4778851:Comment:5643032014-05-22T13:23:47.237ZJonathan Kadish NYC AA Chairhttps://aquaponicgardening.ning.com/profile/JonathanKadish
<p><a href="http://community.theaquaponicsource.com/profile/RobTorcellini?xg_source=profiles_memberList" target="_blank">http://community.theaquaponicsource.com/profile/RobTorcellini?xg_source=profiles_memberList</a></p>
<p>He has lots of Youtube videos on it too</p>
<p><a href="http://community.theaquaponicsource.com/profile/RobTorcellini?xg_source=profiles_memberList" target="_blank">http://community.theaquaponicsource.com/profile/RobTorcellini?xg_source=profiles_memberList</a></p>
<p>He has lots of Youtube videos on it too</p> I've always wanted to see pic…tag:aquaponicgardening.ning.com,2014-05-22:4778851:Comment:5642412014-05-22T13:15:47.930ZJeremiah Robinsonhttps://aquaponicgardening.ning.com/profile/JeremiahRobinson
<p>I've always wanted to see pictures of an aquaponic greenhouse with a rocket mass heater. Does anyone have one?</p>
<p>I've always wanted to see pictures of an aquaponic greenhouse with a rocket mass heater. Does anyone have one?</p> yes sir, plenty of wood here.…tag:aquaponicgardening.ning.com,2014-05-22:4778851:Comment:5640792014-05-22T12:20:52.427ZMichael Mansurhttps://aquaponicgardening.ning.com/profile/MichaelMansur
<p>yes sir, plenty of wood here. i probably have enough on my place to last several years. That's really why I thinking Rocket Mass Heater. Plenty of wood and it just looks like fun to build!</p>
<p>yes sir, plenty of wood here. i probably have enough on my place to last several years. That's really why I thinking Rocket Mass Heater. Plenty of wood and it just looks like fun to build!</p> I get the impression that the…tag:aquaponicgardening.ning.com,2014-05-21:4778851:Comment:5639642014-05-21T14:51:06.083ZJim Fiskhttps://aquaponicgardening.ning.com/profile/JimFisk
<p>I get the impression that there is no firewood in Oklahoma? Here in the mountains of NE TN we heat the air and the water with wood and on those clear days in the Winter I use a small pond pump to circ the sump water thru 100' of 3/4" pvc mounted on metal roof scrap 16' long, painted black and hung high up in the GH. (a closed loop requires just a very small circ pump) 20F below zero last Winter but the system water never dropped below 48F and with Winter crops there were no losses even when…</p>
<p>I get the impression that there is no firewood in Oklahoma? Here in the mountains of NE TN we heat the air and the water with wood and on those clear days in the Winter I use a small pond pump to circ the sump water thru 100' of 3/4" pvc mounted on metal roof scrap 16' long, painted black and hung high up in the GH. (a closed loop requires just a very small circ pump) 20F below zero last Winter but the system water never dropped below 48F and with Winter crops there were no losses even when the GH temp fell to 16F twice due to just cut wood. The solar collector will bring the 2000+ gals of system water up 4F in a day and the woodstove's 1" x 7' ss loop another 2F per day. The woodstove mainly keeps the air around 60F and cuts down on the notorious Winter humidity in the GH.</p>
<p>Then there is the free heavy duty bubblewrap that the furniture stores throw out weekly that we use to make long tunnel GHs inside the GH and also to wrap the 5 FTs. I strongly urge you to stop in at a local furniture store and ask if they could save you some or if it is alright to raid their dumpster as we do. I also use it to wrap our bell siphons for shipping all over the world now. I will add some pics when I can get on the other computer.</p> I just happen to have a solar…tag:aquaponicgardening.ning.com,2014-05-21:4778851:Comment:5641422014-05-21T12:45:56.170ZMichael Mansurhttps://aquaponicgardening.ning.com/profile/MichaelMansur
<p>I just happen to have a solar pool cover which would be a perfect fit for my greenhouse! Haven't even thought about that. I also have some hybrid blue gill coming because i thought i might have a better chance of wintering them over!</p>
<p>I just happen to have a solar pool cover which would be a perfect fit for my greenhouse! Haven't even thought about that. I also have some hybrid blue gill coming because i thought i might have a better chance of wintering them over!</p> Hi Michael et. all,
This is t…tag:aquaponicgardening.ning.com,2014-05-21:4778851:Comment:5641382014-05-21T12:22:57.733ZJeremiah Robinsonhttps://aquaponicgardening.ning.com/profile/JeremiahRobinson
<p>Hi Michael et. all,</p>
<p><a href="http://coldweatheraquaponics.files.wordpress.com/2014/04/landscape-25.jpg?w=750&h=380&crop=1" rel="nofollow" target="_blank"><img class="align-right" src="http://coldweatheraquaponics.files.wordpress.com/2014/04/landscape-25.jpg?w=750&h=380&crop=1&width=200" width="200"></img></a> This is the exact subject of a <a href="http://coldweatheraquaponics.wordpress.com/" target="_blank"><font color="blue">blog I've been writing</font></a> for the past couple months. I've got a ton of posts about exactly this topic. You can also find them in the…</p>
<p>Hi Michael et. all,</p>
<p><a rel="nofollow" href="http://coldweatheraquaponics.files.wordpress.com/2014/04/landscape-25.jpg?w=750&h=380&crop=1" target="_blank"><img src="http://coldweatheraquaponics.files.wordpress.com/2014/04/landscape-25.jpg?w=750&h=380&crop=1&width=200" width="200" class="align-right"/></a>This is the exact subject of a <a href="http://coldweatheraquaponics.wordpress.com/" target="_blank"><font color="blue">blog I've been writing</font></a> for the past couple months. I've got a ton of posts about exactly this topic. You can also find them in the <a href="http://community.theaquaponicsource.com/group/cold-weather-aquaponics" target="_self"><font color="blue">Cold Weather Aquaponics group</font></a> here on the forum, along with some discussion.</p>
<p><a rel="nofollow" href="http://coldweatheraquaponics.files.wordpress.com/2014/05/freezer-fish-tank.jpg?w=750&h=380&crop=1" target="_blank"><img src="http://coldweatheraquaponics.files.wordpress.com/2014/05/freezer-fish-tank.jpg?w=750&h=380&crop=1&width=200" width="200" class="align-left"/></a>The short answer is that if you design and use your system right you shouldn't have to heat much, if at all. Using converted <a href="http://coldweatheraquaponics.wordpress.com/2014/05/15/new-product-freezer-to-fish-tank-conversion-kits/" target="_blank"><font color="blue">freezers for fish tanks</font></a> and insulated / air sealed grow beds reduces your heat needs by about 90% (depending on what you had before and how well you insulate/air seal your beds). My system (in Wisconsin) is heated by a 1000W electric heater, and it ran about 30% of the time in the coldest January of my life.</p>
<p>Regarding what fish to grow, there's an article in <a href="http://aquaponicssurvivalcommunities.com/" target="_blank"><font color="blue">Aquaponics Survival Communities</font></a> this month about that topic. The conclusion is that it makes the most sense economically to buy 7-8" trout in the fall and 7-8" tilapia in spring, switching them seasonally. You can also grow perch or catfish and keep them year-round.</p>
<p><a rel="nofollow" href="http://energyfarms.files.wordpress.com/2010/04/greenhouse-specs.png?w=600&h=263" target="_blank"><img src="http://energyfarms.files.wordpress.com/2010/04/greenhouse-specs.png?w=600&h=263&width=200" width="200" class="align-right"/></a>As for the idea of a blanket over the greenhouse, there are number of options. The Chinese do <a rel="nofollow" href="http://www.resilience.org/stories/2010-04-06/solar-greenhouses-chinese-style" target="_blank"><font color="blue">exactly what you're suggesting</font></a> to grow tomatoes. I've seen some in Beijing and they're amazing! I think they use straw in plastic sheeting, though insulation batts would be easier. You can also use a solar pool cover or bubble wrap over your greenhouse in winter, and you don't have to take that off at night.</p>
<p><a href="http://coldweatheraquaponics.files.wordpress.com/2014/05/four-systems-compared.png?w=750&h=380&crop=1" target="_blank"><img src="http://coldweatheraquaponics.files.wordpress.com/2014/05/four-systems-compared.png?w=750&h=380&crop=1&width=200" width="200" class="align-left"/></a>This week I <a href="http://coldweatheraquaponics.wordpress.com/2014/05/20/4-aquaponics-methods-compared-aka-dump-the-sump/" target="_blank"><font color="blue">compared different system</font></a> types for use in the cold. There are advantages to each, though I think the flood-and-drain with an indexing valve, possibly with DWC beds integrated in a hybrid system, makes the most sense in the cold.</p>
<p>I'd love to hear more ideas. I've still got so much to learn!</p>