Water hardness and RO filters - Aquaponic Gardening2024-03-29T14:24:29Zhttps://aquaponicgardening.ning.com/forum/topics/water-hardness-and-ro-filters?groupUrl=arizona-aquaponics&commentId=4778851%3AComment%3A525046&groupId=4778851%3AGroup%3A253996&feed=yes&xn_auth=noI too was no longer concerned…tag:aquaponicgardening.ning.com,2013-11-14:4778851:Comment:5300692013-11-14T15:03:48.886ZJim Fiskhttps://aquaponicgardening.ning.com/profile/JimFisk
<p>I too was no longer concerned with ph as all was well. That is until I introduced 50+ trout fingerlings to their new home and lost 30+ in 2 days. All was perfect save for the ph which had gone acid. I placed about half a cup of wood ashes in each grow bed under the inflow and the results spoke for themselves. Not a single loss since and the ph went neutral. Another lesson learned the hard way that I won't soon forget.</p>
<p>I too was no longer concerned with ph as all was well. That is until I introduced 50+ trout fingerlings to their new home and lost 30+ in 2 days. All was perfect save for the ph which had gone acid. I placed about half a cup of wood ashes in each grow bed under the inflow and the results spoke for themselves. Not a single loss since and the ph went neutral. Another lesson learned the hard way that I won't soon forget.</p> Hey thanks a lot for taking t…tag:aquaponicgardening.ning.com,2013-11-07:4778851:Comment:5283382013-11-07T17:05:21.255ZTony Lhttps://aquaponicgardening.ning.com/profile/TonyL
<p>Hey thanks a lot for taking the time to explain that to me, clearly I have some learning to do.</p>
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<p>I just finished reading that thread, it's nothing short of brilliant. I'm designing a system now so I may attempt it.</p>
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<p>I've been considering setting up my media bed so it is completely modular---that is there is no media in the bed itself, but all the media is in cubic mesh (?) containers that fit side by side together in the bed. It would be harder to install but…</p>
<p>Hey thanks a lot for taking the time to explain that to me, clearly I have some learning to do.</p>
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<p>I just finished reading that thread, it's nothing short of brilliant. I'm designing a system now so I may attempt it.</p>
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<p>I've been considering setting up my media bed so it is completely modular---that is there is no media in the bed itself, but all the media is in cubic mesh (?) containers that fit side by side together in the bed. It would be harder to install but it would allow for easy maintenance, just pull out the cubes to clean out roots, etc. And then if the bed every does need serious cleaning out it would make it easier. Maybe the roots would just all get tangled together and it wouldn't help, I'm not sure.</p>
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<p>I saw something like this on youtube but I can't find it now. It almost looked like they were using shopping baskets. However, it was with larger media and a constant flow bed. I'm considering smaller media and a flood and drain.</p>
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<p>Thanks again, looking forward to your updates. Impressive yields!</p>
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<p></p> Well, in a big and meaningful…tag:aquaponicgardening.ning.com,2013-11-06:4778851:Comment:5278842013-11-06T01:33:37.166ZVlad Jovanovichttps://aquaponicgardening.ning.com/profile/VladJovanovic
<p>Well, in a big and meaningful way...yes. They are absolutely the same. This is speaking in terms of plant physiology. Plants can ONLY uptake essential elements when those elements are in there most basic ionic form. A plant cares not whether the essential element was obtained through dissociation of a mineral salt, or the bacterial breakdown of complex organic matter. So in that regard, no, there is no difference.</p>
<p><em>However</em>, if you go to the pics section of my page most all…</p>
<p>Well, in a big and meaningful way...yes. They are absolutely the same. This is speaking in terms of plant physiology. Plants can ONLY uptake essential elements when those elements are in there most basic ionic form. A plant cares not whether the essential element was obtained through dissociation of a mineral salt, or the bacterial breakdown of complex organic matter. So in that regard, no, there is no difference.</p>
<p><em>However</em>, if you go to the pics section of my page most all those tomatoes and peppers and whatnot that you see were grown in a pH of 8 or so. I AM IN NO WAY ADVOCATING THAT THIS IS THE NORM, as I have a VERY specific and unique set of circumstances in my system. I've been using 6 different strains of very specific bacteria isolated from soil samples and then cultured in a lab to solubilize plant essential elements bound up in the fish effluent.</p>
<p>This is probably not the thread to get into it...and I've avoided talking much about it thus far because it pretty much goes against everything I've thought/written/expressed before regarding what a "good" pH is. I've generally advocated pH in the lower 6's (and publicly still do and will continue to until I can be certain of what exactly is going on...and why)...</p>
<p>Besides, I'm not the type of guy to go tooting any horns or singing praises prematurely (I'll leave that to others), but in short, I believe that the specific microbiology (exudates and all) used a "dual root zone" set up is helping to foster pH "micro-climates" in the rhizosphere and allowing me to get away with "things doing really well" even at such "cruddy" system pH levels...<a href="http://community.theaquaponicsource.com/group/fish-less-systems/forum/topics/dual-root-zone-possible-for-ap?xg_source=activity">http://community.theaquaponicsource.com/group/fish-less-systems/forum/topics/dual-root-zone-possible-for-ap?xg_source=activity</a></p>
<p>So in that regard, looking at thing from a bit of a different perspective and within a very particular context, perhaps a (somewhat skewed) case can be made that 'the pH band in which mineral salts in a microbially inert system is narrower than in an AP system that is teeming with microbes...</p>
<p></p> Hi Vlad, I really appreciate…tag:aquaponicgardening.ning.com,2013-11-06:4778851:Comment:5280722013-11-06T00:12:13.083ZTony Lhttps://aquaponicgardening.ning.com/profile/TonyL
<p>Hi Vlad, I really appreciate the clarification, that chart is very helpful and what you said makes sense.</p>
<p>When I said special, I meant more scientific than "magical". For instance, perhaps hydroponic nutrients are absorbed at a narrow pH band than aquaponic nutrients. As you said, how plants grow without soil is how plants grow without soil, but are all nutrients the same? </p>
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<p>Hi Vlad, I really appreciate the clarification, that chart is very helpful and what you said makes sense.</p>
<p>When I said special, I meant more scientific than "magical". For instance, perhaps hydroponic nutrients are absorbed at a narrow pH band than aquaponic nutrients. As you said, how plants grow without soil is how plants grow without soil, but are all nutrients the same? </p>
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<p></p> RO filters waste a lot of wat…tag:aquaponicgardening.ning.com,2013-11-06:4778851:Comment:5279762013-11-06T00:11:39.080ZRobert Rowehttps://aquaponicgardening.ning.com/profile/RobertCRoweBob
<p>RO filters waste a lot of water on the flush cycle.</p>
<p>RO filters waste a lot of water on the flush cycle.</p> Hi guys...the chart that Jim…tag:aquaponicgardening.ning.com,2013-11-05:4778851:Comment:5277992013-11-05T21:56:18.468ZVlad Jovanovichttps://aquaponicgardening.ning.com/profile/VladJovanovic
<p>Hi guys...the chart that Jim posted actually applies to <em>soil</em> gardening and not hydroponics (or any other type of soilless culture). It is common to mistake the charts as the two are often floated around "internet-land" rather indiscriminately :)</p>
<p>Most (decent) soils have a vastly different cation exchange capacity than most common soilless mediums...or "worse" yet, water culture (as in a DWC scenario, this is why, in part, in a low nutrient density environment, or one where pH…</p>
<p>Hi guys...the chart that Jim posted actually applies to <em>soil</em> gardening and not hydroponics (or any other type of soilless culture). It is common to mistake the charts as the two are often floated around "internet-land" rather indiscriminately :)</p>
<p>Most (decent) soils have a vastly different cation exchange capacity than most common soilless mediums...or "worse" yet, water culture (as in a DWC scenario, this is why, in part, in a low nutrient density environment, or one where pH is rather high, plants in the DWC portion of a system tend to exhibit visual signs of deficiency before their counterparts that are in a media filled grow bed...even though they are in the same system)...here below are two charts (soil vs soilless) for comparisons sake...</p>
<p><a href="http://storage.ning.com/topology/rest/1.0/file/get/2772251780?profile=original" target="_self"><img src="http://storage.ning.com/topology/rest/1.0/file/get/2772251780?profile=original" width="605" class="align-full"/></a> Notice that the soil chart is much more forgiving...</p>
<p>Oh, and no...there is nothing "magical" about AP. How plants grow without soil, is how plants grow without soil. That said, a well seasoned, mature, micro-biologically thriving AP system seems to display more of that "soil like" forgiveness, that a new or micro-biologically sparse one (much of this seemingly has to due with niche nutrient cycles beyond ammonia oxidation) .</p> So does anyone know if that's…tag:aquaponicgardening.ning.com,2013-11-05:4778851:Comment:5279702013-11-05T19:25:12.474ZTony Lhttps://aquaponicgardening.ning.com/profile/TonyL
<p>So does anyone know if that's true for hydroponics as well, or is there something special about AP?</p>
<p>I know in theory the chart Jim posted applies to hydroponic gardening as well and it should work. B<span style="font-size: 13px;">ut I guess I'm wondering if anyone's had hands on experience---have you grown anything hydroponically with water straight out of the tap (after you degassed the chlorine, of course)? I mean no ph or hardness adjustment.</span></p>
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<p>So does anyone know if that's true for hydroponics as well, or is there something special about AP?</p>
<p>I know in theory the chart Jim posted applies to hydroponic gardening as well and it should work. B<span style="font-size: 13px;">ut I guess I'm wondering if anyone's had hands on experience---have you grown anything hydroponically with water straight out of the tap (after you degassed the chlorine, of course)? I mean no ph or hardness adjustment.</span></p>
<p></p> Well that was a rookie mistak…tag:aquaponicgardening.ning.com,2013-10-24:4778851:Comment:5254502013-10-24T17:50:22.572ZTony Lhttps://aquaponicgardening.ning.com/profile/TonyL
<p>Well that was a rookie mistake, I didn't look closely enough at the test kit. I thought it maxed out at 10, it maxes out at 8.5 so I just read it wrong and my water is 8.3. </p>
<p>Sheri: I was using the Gen Hydro liquid wide range ph kit, now I also have the API test kit. Thank you for your feedback.</p>
<p>Jim: That makes sense, thanks a lot for laying it out for me.</p>
<p>From what I saw on the gov website, Scottsdale water only contains chlorine, and does not contain…</p>
<p>Well that was a rookie mistake, I didn't look closely enough at the test kit. I thought it maxed out at 10, it maxes out at 8.5 so I just read it wrong and my water is 8.3. </p>
<p>Sheri: I was using the Gen Hydro liquid wide range ph kit, now I also have the API test kit. Thank you for your feedback.</p>
<p>Jim: That makes sense, thanks a lot for laying it out for me.</p>
<p>From what I saw on the gov website, Scottsdale water only contains chlorine, and does not contain chloramines?</p>
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<p> </p> Tony:
If you look at that cha…tag:aquaponicgardening.ning.com,2013-10-24:4778851:Comment:5254292013-10-24T05:37:24.510ZJim Troyerhttps://aquaponicgardening.ning.com/profile/JimTroyer
<p>Tony:</p>
<p>If you look at that chart below you will see that all the minerals <span style="text-decoration: underline;">are available</span> at both the gray and black lines which represent 6.5 (the holy grail of AP) and 8.3 Arizona's natural pH. I run my system around 8.2 because it has a preexisting cement fish pond which is a big no no in AP. The only reason I can figure it is verboten is because you can't achieve the holy grail 6.5 - 7.0 pH. However, everything grows well. I may…</p>
<p>Tony:</p>
<p>If you look at that chart below you will see that all the minerals <span style="text-decoration: underline;">are available</span> at both the gray and black lines which represent 6.5 (the holy grail of AP) and 8.3 Arizona's natural pH. I run my system around 8.2 because it has a preexisting cement fish pond which is a big no no in AP. The only reason I can figure it is verboten is because you can't achieve the holy grail 6.5 - 7.0 pH. However, everything grows well. I may add a little more mineral supplement for the metals than other AP growers do but who really knows for sure? This is after I had created a pile of empty pool acid bottles.<a target="_self" href="http://storage.ning.com/topology/rest/1.0/file/get/2772250949?profile=original"><img class="align-full" src="http://storage.ning.com/topology/rest/1.0/file/get/2772250949?profile=original" width="487"/></a>yes, the point of that link was nothing survives a pH of 9 or 10.</p>
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<p><a target="_self" href="http://storage.ning.com/topology/rest/1.0/file/get/2772251810?profile=original"><img class="align-left" src="http://storage.ning.com/topology/rest/1.0/file/get/2772251810?profile=original" width="256"/></a></p>
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<p>@ Sheri: we love to hear from you anyway...</p>
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<p>cmwyhnc ;-)</p> Haha! I saw no answers, so I…tag:aquaponicgardening.ning.com,2013-10-22:4778851:Comment:5252582013-10-22T20:51:11.594ZSheri Schmeckpeperhttps://aquaponicgardening.ning.com/profile/SheriSchmeckpeper
<p>Haha! I saw no answers, so I answered, and now I see many! So sorry for any redundancy!</p>
<p>Haha! I saw no answers, so I answered, and now I see many! So sorry for any redundancy!</p>