Warm Blooded vs. Cold Blooded Aquaponics - Aquaponic Gardening2024-03-28T16:18:42Zhttps://aquaponicgardening.ning.com/forum/topics/warm-blooded-vs-cold-blooded-aquaponics?groupUrl=permaculture-aquaponics&commentId=4778851%3AComment%3A565447&groupId=4778851%3AGroup%3A183322&feed=yes&xn_auth=noI do this all the time and ha…tag:aquaponicgardening.ning.com,2014-05-31:4778851:Comment:5654472014-05-31T05:43:53.337Zlarry poehttps://aquaponicgardening.ning.com/profile/larrypoe
<p>I do this all the time and have done so all my life (soil garden) though it wouldn't make sense to me to add manure to aquaponics esp if there are fish in the system.</p>
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<p>however back to the soil garden, we have always added the manure from farm livestock to the garden. always. in fact every bit of the manure from our rabbit operation goes into the garden. in fact a garden surrounds the rabbit barn for just that purpose. same for the hen house and chicken pen. the hay…</p>
<p>I do this all the time and have done so all my life (soil garden) though it wouldn't make sense to me to add manure to aquaponics esp if there are fish in the system.</p>
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<p>however back to the soil garden, we have always added the manure from farm livestock to the garden. always. in fact every bit of the manure from our rabbit operation goes into the garden. in fact a garden surrounds the rabbit barn for just that purpose. same for the hen house and chicken pen. the hay fed to the horses, cattle, sheep, goats, ect ect, is fed throughout the winter exactly where I want to plant potatos the next spring.</p>
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<p>just about every corn farmer in my area uses poultry litter from grow houses on fields there going to plant corn in. any poultry manure is high in nitrogen and corn needs a lot of it.</p>
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<p>I also use the ashes from the wood stove in the dirt garden, wood ash is about 10% potash.</p>
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<p>the rule of thumb I was always taught as a kid was if it was manure from herbivores or foul it was fine as is.</p>
<p>. while for the most part the manure is composted on site before planting, that's only because of the timing it was produced lol. when its time to clean the hen house or rabbit barn in warm weather I don't pile it in compost bins as a rule (though some does go in there with the grass clippings from the yard) I just put it between the rows of corn, tomatos, ect. nowhere a root crop is though.</p>
<p>I haven't died yet from it and im 43<br/> <br/> <cite>Miguel Afonso said:</cite></p>
<blockquote cite="http://community.theaquaponicsource.com/forum/topics/warm-blooded-vs-cold-blooded-aquaponics?groupUrl=permaculture-aquaponics&groupId=4778851%3AGroup%3A183322&id=4778851%3ATopic%3A230635&page=1#4778851Comment230928"><div><div class="xg_user_generated">Great discussion. I knew this one could bring out strong opinions. To push it a little further. Would you recommend using manured water on plants in soil? What about aged or composted manure not withstanding adding too much nutrient to the system. Nasty stories of liver flukes are welcome, but I am trying to explore the subject with the possibility of repurposing warm blooded critter waste. Seems so far, cold blooded 1, warm blooded 0. TCLynx, I liked your idea for keeping your duck water clean, do you use aquatic plants to do the trick?<img src="http://www.bkserv.net/images/Grin.gif"/></div>
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</blockquote> Jesse Hull said:
Check out th…tag:aquaponicgardening.ning.com,2011-12-15:4778851:Comment:2656802011-12-15T23:50:07.660ZPaul Holowkohttps://aquaponicgardening.ning.com/profile/PaulHolowko
<p><br></br><br></br><cite>Jesse Hull said:</cite></p>
<blockquote cite="http://aquaponicscommunity.com/forum/topics/warm-blooded-vs-cold-blooded-aquaponics?groupUrl=permaculture-aquaponics&commentId=4778851%3AComment%3A265949&xg_source=msg_com_gr_forum#4778851Comment265949"><div><div class="xg_user_generated"><p>Check out <a href="http://aquaponicscommunity.com/photo/lettuce-500w-watercooled-lights-2-with-watermark?context=user" rel="nofollow" target="_self">this test</a>. All 'hydro-organic'…</p>
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<p><br/><br/><cite>Jesse Hull said:</cite></p>
<blockquote cite="http://aquaponicscommunity.com/forum/topics/warm-blooded-vs-cold-blooded-aquaponics?groupUrl=permaculture-aquaponics&commentId=4778851%3AComment%3A265949&xg_source=msg_com_gr_forum#4778851Comment265949"><div><div class="xg_user_generated"><p>Check out <a href="http://aquaponicscommunity.com/photo/lettuce-500w-watercooled-lights-2-with-watermark?context=user" rel="nofollow" target="_self">this test</a>. All 'hydro-organic' nutrient solution derived mainly from rabbit manure. </p>
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<p>I looked at your posting. Very nice! Can you send me the exact ingrediance list and amounts. I would like to reproduce what you did.</p>
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<p>Paul</p>
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</blockquote> Check out this test. All 'hy…tag:aquaponicgardening.ning.com,2011-12-15:4778851:Comment:2659492011-12-15T22:55:31.019ZJesse Hullhttps://aquaponicgardening.ning.com/profile/JesseHull
<p>Check out <a href="http://aquaponicscommunity.com/photo/lettuce-500w-watercooled-lights-2-with-watermark?context=user" target="_self">this test</a>. All 'hydro-organic' nutrient solution derived mainly from rabbit manure. </p>
<p>Check out <a href="http://aquaponicscommunity.com/photo/lettuce-500w-watercooled-lights-2-with-watermark?context=user" target="_self">this test</a>. All 'hydro-organic' nutrient solution derived mainly from rabbit manure. </p> Here is an experiment using…tag:aquaponicgardening.ning.com,2011-12-15:4778851:Comment:2659082011-12-15T18:56:09.440ZPaul Holowkohttps://aquaponicgardening.ning.com/profile/PaulHolowko
<p> Here is an experiment using fish as food for plants in Aquaponics. If you click on the link below you can see the chemical data in the water and the equipment setup.<a style="cursor: pointer;"><img src="http://www.bkserv.net/images/Grin.gif"></img></a> This is a very warm, cold blooded thing to do.…</p>
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<p> Here is an experiment using fish as food for plants in Aquaponics. If you click on the link below you can see the chemical data in the water and the equipment setup.<a style="cursor: pointer;"><img src="http://www.bkserv.net/images/Grin.gif"/></a> This is a very warm, cold blooded thing to do.</p>
<p><a href="http://www.gardeningrhythms.com/using-dead-fish-as-aquaponics-fertilizer-decomposing-fish/">http://www.gardeningrhythms.com/using-dead-fish-as-aquaponics-fertilizer-decomposing-fish/</a></p> Carey has a more holistic per…tag:aquaponicgardening.ning.com,2011-11-28:4778851:Comment:2567672011-11-28T12:37:06.824ZTCLynxhttps://aquaponicgardening.ning.com/profile/TCLynx
<p>Carey has a more holistic permaculture thing going on, Not Just Aquaponics but the whole farm is part of his designs.</p>
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<p>The birds not wasted Carey, they are getting recycled just not getting to grow up as birds first, we still appreciate them as part of the larger whole even if we feel bad that they died young.</p>
<p>Carey has a more holistic permaculture thing going on, Not Just Aquaponics but the whole farm is part of his designs.</p>
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<p>The birds not wasted Carey, they are getting recycled just not getting to grow up as birds first, we still appreciate them as part of the larger whole even if we feel bad that they died young.</p> @ Miguel: I do not think it i…tag:aquaponicgardening.ning.com,2011-11-28:4778851:Comment:2565402011-11-28T03:35:27.486ZCarey Mahttps://aquaponicgardening.ning.com/profile/CareyMa
<p>@ Miguel: I do not think it is necessary to use a bio digester in AP esp. in smaller systems and may even be illegal in some counties. My situation dictates the use of both black and gray water, plus due to the way I raise chickens, produce quite a few contaminated carcasses. The mortality rate of day old chicks to maturity is around 5/6, so to get a healthy flock of two hundred healthy birds, I wasted a lot of lives. </p>
<p>@ Miguel: I do not think it is necessary to use a bio digester in AP esp. in smaller systems and may even be illegal in some counties. My situation dictates the use of both black and gray water, plus due to the way I raise chickens, produce quite a few contaminated carcasses. The mortality rate of day old chicks to maturity is around 5/6, so to get a healthy flock of two hundred healthy birds, I wasted a lot of lives. </p> Using up the methane is defin…tag:aquaponicgardening.ning.com,2011-11-28:4778851:Comment:2568052011-11-28T02:58:49.388ZMiguel Afonsohttps://aquaponicgardening.ning.com/profile/MiguelAfonso
<p>Using up the methane is definately an interesting plus. Thereby making the manure do double the work. Methane is a great by product of decomposition, but is necessary for the safety of the recycling ecosystem (aka. aquaponics)?</p>
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<p>I will check out your system for sure. </p>
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<p>Using up the methane is definately an interesting plus. Thereby making the manure do double the work. Methane is a great by product of decomposition, but is necessary for the safety of the recycling ecosystem (aka. aquaponics)?</p>
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<p>I will check out your system for sure. </p>
<p> </p> Aquaponics is only one type o…tag:aquaponicgardening.ning.com,2011-11-27:4778851:Comment:2562882011-11-27T18:26:00.662ZCarey Mahttps://aquaponicgardening.ning.com/profile/CareyMa
<p>Aquaponics is only one type of IBS (integrated bio system) but in it's pure form is not yet sustainable. I believe that warm blooded animals can and should have a place in the nutrient recycling process. However, I too agree that processes should be separated to minimize contamination. I think it is appropriate for warm blooded animal feces to be routed through a bio-digester to extract methane before going through a two step composting process before going through the organic…</p>
<p>Aquaponics is only one type of IBS (integrated bio system) but in it's pure form is not yet sustainable. I believe that warm blooded animals can and should have a place in the nutrient recycling process. However, I too agree that processes should be separated to minimize contamination. I think it is appropriate for warm blooded animal feces to be routed through a bio-digester to extract methane before going through a two step composting process before going through the organic (hydro-organic/ bio dynamic) part of the systems nutrient cycle.</p>
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<p>I believe in bio diversity to an extreme. Every creature has a job and function. It is up to us to define the appropriate symbiosis and do what we do best; separate and segregate. Though much better than traditional hydroponics, AP by itself is simply not sustainable.</p>
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<p>In my newest system, I have "duck water" running into a mosquito fish pond then into the mosquito pond to produce fresh, live feed. The last step of this part of the nutrient cycle is to clean the water by growing duckweed and or algae, which is also used in the feed making process. The next step is to find the appropriate ratios.</p>
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<p>Please have a look and tell me what you think.</p>
<p><a href="http://aquaponicscommunity.com/photo/duck-fish-sustainable-ap-1?context=user">http://aquaponicscommunity.com/photo/duck-fish-sustainable-ap-1?context=user</a></p> Hi Nate,
My thinking is alon…tag:aquaponicgardening.ning.com,2011-11-22:4778851:Comment:2534282011-11-22T00:19:33.014ZMiguel Afonsohttps://aquaponicgardening.ning.com/profile/MiguelAfonso
<p>Hi Nate, </p>
<p>My thinking is along the same the same lines. In shimp culture it is not uncommon to fertilize with compost or chicken manure. This alllows microscopic algae and microbes to proliferate, and then be filterer by the shimp. The key is to not over fertilize (same for fish food) and to make sure the environment in aerobic. Fully formed compost is safe and so are heat sterilized manures. To further mitigate the chances of ecoli. A bed with Cattails can act as a filter. The water…</p>
<p>Hi Nate, </p>
<p>My thinking is along the same the same lines. In shimp culture it is not uncommon to fertilize with compost or chicken manure. This alllows microscopic algae and microbes to proliferate, and then be filterer by the shimp. The key is to not over fertilize (same for fish food) and to make sure the environment in aerobic. Fully formed compost is safe and so are heat sterilized manures. To further mitigate the chances of ecoli. A bed with Cattails can act as a filter. The water can then flow to a fish pond/tank with mussels and fish and onward through some growbeds. After the growbeds though a pond/tank of azzola which fixes nitrogen and is a food source for humans and chickens. The cycle is complete. <img src="http://www.bkserv.net/images/Grin.gif"/></p> I think a fishless AP system…tag:aquaponicgardening.ning.com,2011-11-21:4778851:Comment:2533612011-11-21T17:37:52.227ZNate Storeyhttps://aquaponicgardening.ning.com/profile/NateStorey
<p>I think a fishless AP system is essentially a traditional hydroponic system using new inputs. Like vermiponics. Same idea but definitely not aquaponics. . . . also, hot manure in any type of system is a bad idea. Like TC said just compost it first. People are using animal manures as organic inputs in hydroponic production systems all over the world- and it works, but it's no longer aquaponics. . . . it's a much smaller food web/cycle. This in an of itself is one reason I'm not…</p>
<p>I think a fishless AP system is essentially a traditional hydroponic system using new inputs. Like vermiponics. Same idea but definitely not aquaponics. . . . also, hot manure in any type of system is a bad idea. Like TC said just compost it first. People are using animal manures as organic inputs in hydroponic production systems all over the world- and it works, but it's no longer aquaponics. . . . it's a much smaller food web/cycle. This in an of itself is one reason I'm not particularly attracted to it. I eliminate my disease issues with a broad and competitive microbial ecology and covers multiple niches within the system. The more niches the better because it amplifies the effects of competition effects. Ever wonder why you don't have too many problems with pythiums or rizoctonia or any of the other root rots in a healthy AP system? It's not because it's not anaerobic, it's because it's a complex cycle built from thousands of tiny ecological niches. In order for reinfection and pathogen life-cycle completion, the spore or cell or whatever your particle is has to "run the gauntlet" of multiple other biomes. . . This means the the complex ecology surrounding fish metabolism, the anerobic zones the aerobic zones- all the millions of tiny niches that establish with every macroinvertebrate or higher organism. . . Each of these big critters is a world in and of itself- and a world that fundamentally protects your plant production via the competitive and vicious little microbial biomes that surround them or feed off of them or their wastes in one way or another. . .</p>