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Vlad : Vermicomposting in a Trench
For those just catching up...a bit ago ( week or so) Vlad asked a question about a vermicomposting strategy using a trench...I told him I'd answer....been out 'wrangling redworms' and such....so now here it is...the short version anyway:
Hi Converse,
If one were to dig a trench say, 70-80cm wide by 70-80cm deep by how ever long (4-5 metres) and line it with geo-textile and put down some straw bedding (probably not very absorbent)...could you dump half composted veggie scraps and rotting leaves mixed with straw in the first metre or so of the trench, let the worms do there thing, then move them along by putting down an other big pile of (fresh) more of the same next to the first one...and so on and so on til you get to the end of the trench (or winter comes), harvesting castings as the move forward?
Speaking of winter, could you then put down bedding (straw fresh leaves, composted cow manure and some veggie scraps) and place a big pile of fresh NON-composted cow manure (it's non-grain fed) next to that for some warmth, and then cover the whole thing with bales of straw? Will the worms gravitate into a "comfort zone of warmth" over the winter?
Or is this idea just stupid? I have a LOT of ALL of the above materials and a lot of space. I've only ever kept a small home-made plastic worm bin(s) and was very, very pleased until they turned into worm-cicles this winter. Any thoughts or suggestions on the trench would be vastly appreciated.
Hi Vlad,
There are many strategies to deal with harsh winter conditions and hot season conditions. First off, I hope you did not get rid of those bins that contained the ‘worm-cicles’. What we tell people out in this area is that if they forget, and leave their vermicomposting bins out where they may freeze clear through, there is a good chance that after the Spring thaw, their bins will ‘rejuvenate’. This is because, while the redworms themselves may die from being frozen, the cocoons are very hardy. Often times when the bin is allowed to warm up and reach favorable conditions, the cocoons that are present will hatch, and the composting bin can be re-started. Of course, the best option is to avoid this freezing in the first place, which is why you were asking me about trench vermicomposting....
There are a few ways to do this...there are people in Maine and Alaska who dig holes in the ground and place the vermicomposting bins in the holes and cover them up with straw and then a board over that. This makes it more convenient to continue vermicompositng, in that all one has to do to add food matter or retrieve the composted matter is lift the bin out of the hole.
The trench strategy you described in your question is absolutely workable! I have a way too-long explanation to post online, so I am sending the answer to you in a private message. Been working on it as time allows for the past week. But I wanted you to know (and the other readers here to know) that this is not only possible, but a good strategy for many locations, with a few management issues to consider.
Look for the message I sent you…and happy vermicomposting!
- Converse
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Converse on
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Hey Vlad, ' Guess you need to add me as a "friend" so I can send the rest of the trench vermicomposting message to you....
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Permalink Reply by TCLynx on
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Well Converse, if you are not opposed to posting what you wrote to Vlad on the open forum, I'm interested to hear it too.
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Permalink Reply by Vlad Jovanovic on
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Hi Converse,
Sorry I didn't see the friend request until a little while ago (or this post/thread until just now, thanks TC for bringing it into the left-hand column on the homepage :) ...it's been crazy busy here).
And thanks for taking the time to answer. I eagerly await to receive the reply you wrote. Thanks again.
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Sure I will post it here. It is just long, that is why I thought a message to Vlad would be best. Plus it is advice for his specific situation and the specs he gave. I'll post tomorrow. Just did not think it would be something of general interest on an AP forum. I just got back after a long day of projects and I have to start early tomorrow again too. Just need to pull it out of the document I typed... but for now it is time to eat, and get some shut-eye.
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Any chance on shooting off that message before you pass out?
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So I cut and pasted what I typed earlier in a document below..."Ask and ye shall recieve'...I may add more detail tomorrow...and if you read and come up with questions about this put there here, so I can answer them...
Hi Vlad,
There are many strategies to deal with harsh winter conditions and hot season conditions. First off, I hope you did not get rid of those bins that contained the ‘worm-cicles’. What we tell people out in this area is that if they forget, and leave their vermicomposting bins out where they may freeze clear through, there is a good chance that after the Spring thaw, their bins will ‘rejuvenate’. This is because, while the redworms themselves may die from being frozen some do survive a freeze), the cocoons are very hardy. Often times when the bin is allowed to warm up and reach favorable conditions, the cocoons that are present will hatch, and the composting bin can be re-started. Of course, the best option is to avoid this freezing in the first place, which is why you were asking me about trench vermicomposting....
There are a few ways to do this...there are people in Maine and Alaska who dig holes in the ground and place the vermicomposting bins in the holes and cover them up with straw and then a board over that. This makes it more convenient to continue vermicompositng, in that all one has to do to add food matter or retrieve the composted matter is lift the bin out of the hole.
Digging a trench is difficult work, and putting matter into the trench really is not that difficult. The difficulty presents itself when trying to dig the vermicomposted matter out of the trench, which is why this is not a common practice. However, my personal opinion is that if a person is not opposed to the work of digging out the matter for later use (whether it be for the worms to harvest or for the worm castings), this can be a practical solution for people who live in areas where the winters can be harsh, or warm season temperatures are extremely high.
Being a very non-metric person, I will admit I had to get out my ruler to visualize your stated dimensions. The sizing sounds like it would work. The big thing is to make sure you have enough room to cover up the whole mass and that the redworms have room to burrow down below the winter freeze-line of your soil. Covering with straw bales will be excellent insulation.
I have used a similar strategy out here to help our redworms over winter, in that I have purposely used the heat created in thermophylic composting to keep the redworms next to it warm enough. My first experiment was with a terrace on an incline. I covered an area about 15 feet by 20 feet about 3 feet deep with spent grain from a local brewery, added manure from our neighbors’ barn since we did not have enough at the time, and added leaves. This matter got pretty hot right away. On top of that I added the layers the redworms would live in, and they topped that with the insulating layers to keep the redworms protected from the winter ice storms and snows. It worked beautifully. The redworms stayed warm and content and thriving (we did a LOT of redworm harvesting all winter from this bed). I even planted our garden in this the following early Spring, and we had a garden that was amazing. One of the things a terrace has advantage-wise over a trench, is a low side to stand on to work the wormbeds. A trench offers a hole to have to bend down in to work in, which can be challenging, but not impossible.
A successful trench will require that you consider a few things. The drainage of the soil horizons surrounding the trench is very important. You will want to be sure that any torrential rains will drain quickly so you do not have water sitting or sopping in the trench. If you are not sure about this, the best way to test this is to pour a large volume of water in the trench and watch for drainage. The location of your trench will also play a role here. It should not be located at the bottom of a slope or any other place water would naturally drain to and sit, if at all possible.
If your area has a distinct rainy season, it may also be wise to temporarily cover the trench. My personal preference is to allow the natural rains to wet a wormbed , and augment as needed. This keeps time and money spent maintaining a wormbed at its lowest possible costs. However some locations may require that wormbeds be covered with some waterproof material to keep it from becoming over-wet, or in the case of a trench, filled with water. This can be a tarp or a removable roof like light weight corrugated fiberglass sheets. There should be air circulation available between whatever is covering the trench and the matter in the trench. You could easily place a tarp or a temporary roof structure over the trench covering straw bales if your area weather would require this.
If your area is excessively hot seasonally, a trench can offer some cooling properties for a redworm population as well. Try to locate a trench where the sun in the hottest part of the day does not rest on it directly in very hot climates. Shade can be provided artificially as needed in the same manner as the protective winter roof can be for very wet winter locations.
As far as the geo-textile goes, there are differing schools of thought for what to line a wormbed with. This can translate to your trench. Many redworm operations recommend adding hardware cloth (welded wire mesh) between the ground and the wormbeds. This it keeps moles from invading your wormbeds. Moles will eat worms, and would love to find a smorgasbord provided especially for them. We do have moles on our property, but have never in all our years seen a mole hill in any of our wormbeds, and none are lined. This is a personal choice for us. The geo-textile may be a personal choice for you, and will keep out unwanted insects and maybe even moles for a time, and act as a barrier for your redworms, Your redworms will stay in the trench as long as it is maintained at the proper moisture levels, and is not allowed to go anaerobic and has food for them to eat, without the geo-textile. It will not hurt to use it however.
Working from one end of a trench to the other adding food for the redworms as you go is a very common and workable strategy that many redworm operations use. This is a common practice in what is called windrows above ground, and will work in a trench too. Yes, the redworms will migrate along following the freshly added food as they consume what has already been added.
I hope I have thoroughly answered your questions here. If anything here needs clarification let me know. If you have any questions about managing your project, let me know. I will gladly help out with information. My best to you in this. It IS very workable.
Sincerely,
Converse
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Thanks Converse. I already have a couple of questions, but I'm gonna read this over (probably a few more times) and let it sink in...You've given me much to think about (and much encouragement for the idea).
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I have a few comments about things like weed barrier and geo-textiles and screens. As converse notes, worms will stay if they like the home you created for them, they will leave if they don't. I don't think the geo-textile will really stop much of anything for long, about the only benefit is perhaps if it is placed in the trench in sections, then maybe a couple people could lift it out of the trench to work with the worms/castings up on a more comfortable work station once a section is finished. Otherwise weed mat or geo-textile just makes digging difficult. If it is open weave enough to allow water through easily, worms will probably go through it no problem. I don't know how good moles are at getting through such stuff but I do know rats will chew through it to get worm treats. My worm bins are now all protected by hardware cloth because of rodents.
Now if you want to take the trench composting to a minimal labor level... You could dig a trench where you plan to plant next year's dirt garden. And for the year you add worm food/compost material. Then come cold weather you cover it up a bit (especially the newest part of the pile to keep it warm and active into winter.) Then next spring you plant in it. Hopefully continuing it on in zig zag fashion to keep the active part with worms moving on preparing the next seasons garden. (This is basically the bury your compost directly in the garden method of composting instead of needing to build bins and piles that need care and then distrobution to the garden later.)
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The geo-textile thing is in fact (in part) to try to coerce the worms into staying in case I at somepoint don't do such a good job of creating/keeping up a good environment for them. The other part was for some extra drainage. The idea was to lay down some straw and 2x4's first then some geotextile, then the worm bedding...?(since the water coming off the 'barn' roof falls nearby, and it can get pretty rainy here at times of the year... but on the up side the barn offers shade for a good potion of the day). I don't think I have ever seen hardware cloth here, but will be on the look-out now for it.
I have been fighting a running battle with the moles, mostly because I don't want one to burrow into the greenhouse and decide to pop up under a (Friendly's style) DWC raft. The cats seemed to have taken care of any rodents, but my pup is still to small to really go after the moles, though he does go a bit crazy trying to dig when near a fresh mound...
I like your garden idea, that is pretty keen, but my garden tends to be a 3,4,5,..6000 square foot ordeal. The compost pile is near the garden, and I thought I'd put the trench next to that. My wife and I eat almost completely all raw food (I'm the one who falls into the 'almost' category ;) so, it would be easy to get another pile going that would be just for the worms...to sort of give the food scraps a chance to start breaking down (and drain some) before being fed to the worms. Believe it or not, I'm actually having trouble raking up enough carbon content for the compost pile (old leaves, saw dust and chips mostly) to keep up with our fruit/veggie scraps.
It would be nice if Converse has the time to expound on his terrace on an incline. That sounds appealing and I have a slight incline to work with. At any rate, I'm gonna think about this a bunch more before I start any digging...in the meantime I've found a big 'ol wooden box in the attic to use as a new worm bin...
Converse, unfortunately I did toss the contents of the bin (in the compost pile though so maybe some hatched and are doing well somewhere). A few weeks ago I did read what you posted somewhere else on the topic and know better now...
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I just found this this morning after (slowly) typing an answer about composting worms in another thread on this forum...I am S-l-o-w at typing, and now I have to get busy with farming...I will answer this later this evening...But we DO grow our garden right in some of our worm beds. Amazing growth! Short seasons dwarf corn that is supposed to only get 4-5 feet tall gets 7 feet tall, and produces like crazy! Same with tomatos, peas, everything...And to do vermicomposting you can forget about the greens and browns ratios.
ANyway, I'll answer in more detail later...And TCLynx gave great input! Thanks!
- Converse
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I do type fairly fast
But I'm getting busy on the farm too and have less time to keep up here.
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Sorry about not getting back last evening. Needed rest.
Vermicomposting in a trench should work just fine. For the most part, redworms are pretty forgiving/adaptable. Some of that does depend on the species being 'employed'. Some redworms have more of a wandering habit than others. This is one reason that Eisenia fetida is a good choice for vermicomposting bins. Not only is this species a fast reproducer, and consumes a lot, but they do not as a general rule display the wandering habit that others do. They tend to stay put. Now before people inundate this thread with anecdotes of, "I know this happened in this instance stories" I am referrring to generalities. For every 'rule' there are exceptions. I am referring to general characteristics.Eisenia fetida is one species that I would suggest for your vermicomposting trench too. Of course, the best choice is the ones you already have. It sounds like you' ve already got some composting worms at your place.
Some worms used in vermicomposting have a wandering habit, like the species known commonly as the European Night Crawler. It is actually not a night crawler at all. The common name is thus due to its size. Other common names: Blue Worm, super red worm, Belgian Night Crawler. Scientific name: Eisenia hortensis . They are also known as Dendrobena veneta, which was their scientific name before being reclassified. Many people like using this due to the size and marketability. They are often sold as fishing bait as well as a composting worm. This might be a good choice for you, but be aware that this particular worm does have a reputation as a wanderer. They WILL leave enmass if the conditions are not what they desire, although you will read some accounts to the contrary. They also eat less, and take longer to mature and reproduce. This particular worm though is tolerant of cool temperatures too.
SO will the worms stay without some sort of barrier? Yes, and no. If you put the food source you mentioned in your earlier post, you'll have created 'composting worm heaven'. The menu sounds like a good choice. Here's an example of some dumped worms that 'stayed put':
The person who (many) years ago gave me my first official compositng worms, which are Eisneia fetida, had her operation contained in several garbage cans, and bins in an out-building. One late Autumn, she had told me she was tired of dealing with feeding them, and gave away all but one bin full . That she dumped in a depression she had dug next to a grape plant in her yard. By Spring, she was feeling the itch of Gardening Fever, and began to regret having 'dumped out" and gotten rid of all her composting worms. In an effort to hopefully recover some of her redworms, she dug down in the spot she dumped them months before...And as far as she could tell, they were 'all' still there, plus even more! They had stayed with the food source all winter long. They had endured freezing temperatures, and snow piled on them and torrential rains. She does live at a lower elevation that I do, so I do not know exactly how much the ground at her place froze that winter, but the redworms had experienced typical winter conditions with little or no winter prep. I was impressed. Still, we do give winter prep to our crop or redworms each Fall.
Your trench concept will work. I have one serious caution you should look at, just by reading the information you presented. If I read correctly, there is a sloping roof near the trench location. If you get a lot of rain in your area, you will really want to check how well your soil drains. You may want to be sure to divert your rain water shedding off the roof from the trench area. You could even do this by putting a berm of soil around the trench. The other issue would be snow load sliding off the roof and onto the trench. This will put not just the normal snow fall on the trench spot to melt and water the trench through straw bales, but it will also add a depth of snow from the roof top and all the snow melt it brings too. This difference can be significant...Would the snow load from the roof top land on the trench? Just questions to ask yourself. If water is limted in your area, having the trench located next to a roof top can be a good thing.
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