Trough aeration increases plant growth!! - Aquaponic Gardening2024-03-28T17:26:33Zhttps://aquaponicgardening.ning.com/forum/topics/trough-aeration-increases?groupUrl=raftdeepwaterculturegrowers&commentId=4778851%3AComment%3A36926&groupId=4778851%3AGroup%3A28261&feed=yes&xn_auth=noWell said :-)
God Bless
Ha…tag:aquaponicgardening.ning.com,2011-10-23:4778851:Comment:2364562011-10-23T22:44:35.416ZSahib Punjabihttps://aquaponicgardening.ning.com/profile/SahibPunjabi
<p>Well said :-)</p>
<p> </p>
<p>God Bless</p>
<p><br></br> <cite>Harold Sukhbir said:</cite></p>
<blockquote cite="http://aquaponicscommunity.com/forum/topics/trough-aeration-increases?groupUrl=raftdeepwaterculturegrowers&commentId=4778851%3AComment%3A236433&xg_source=msg_com_gr_forum#4778851Comment236433"><div><div class="xg_user_generated"><p>Hi All,</p>
<p>Alpine makes many great points here. Unless the pump/pumps were shut off to show the bubble pattern in trough, from these pics, the…</p>
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<p>Well said :-)</p>
<p> </p>
<p>God Bless</p>
<p><br/> <cite>Harold Sukhbir said:</cite></p>
<blockquote cite="http://aquaponicscommunity.com/forum/topics/trough-aeration-increases?groupUrl=raftdeepwaterculturegrowers&commentId=4778851%3AComment%3A236433&xg_source=msg_com_gr_forum#4778851Comment236433"><div><div class="xg_user_generated"><p>Hi All,</p>
<p>Alpine makes many great points here. Unless the pump/pumps were shut off to show the bubble pattern in trough, from these pics, the flow rates to me, appear minimal at best. There are the obvious ratios to consider as well. We can pride ourselves in AP, as having smaller pumps to compensate our electrical use, however if we minimize flow rates, position raft inlets and outlets which produces uneven water movement, increase plant density, maintain low DO levels, skimp on quality fish feed, not ensure timely supplementation of depleted nutrient, provide other key maintenance which optimizes raft efficiency, we can expect the likely results. I'm not suggesting that this is the case here but Raft are not simply a trough with fish water flowing through, its like a car which we can fine tune to run as smoothly as possible or rattle and roll all the way to the same destination, it really depends on the aims/objectives of the operator. I have learn't so many tips and tricks from the experienced rafters, like Chris, David, others, and from personal experience, on this site, to know that floating raft is a complex AP which can always be improved upon, as the operator gains experience over time.</p>
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</blockquote> Hi All,
Alpine makes many gre…tag:aquaponicgardening.ning.com,2011-10-23:4778851:Comment:2364332011-10-23T15:52:29.033ZHarold Sukhbirhttps://aquaponicgardening.ning.com/profile/HaroldSukhbir
<p>Hi All,</p>
<p>Alpine makes many great points here. Unless the pump/pumps were shut off to show the bubble pattern in trough, from these pics, the flow rates to me, appear minimal at best. There are the obvious ratios to consider as well. We can pride ourselves in AP, as having smaller pumps to compensate our electrical use, however if we minimize flow rates, position raft inlets and outlets which produces uneven water movement, increase plant density, maintain low DO levels, skimp on…</p>
<p>Hi All,</p>
<p>Alpine makes many great points here. Unless the pump/pumps were shut off to show the bubble pattern in trough, from these pics, the flow rates to me, appear minimal at best. There are the obvious ratios to consider as well. We can pride ourselves in AP, as having smaller pumps to compensate our electrical use, however if we minimize flow rates, position raft inlets and outlets which produces uneven water movement, increase plant density, maintain low DO levels, skimp on quality fish feed, not ensure timely supplementation of depleted nutrient, provide other key maintenance which optimizes raft efficiency, we can expect the likely results. I'm not suggesting that this is the case here but Raft are not simply a trough with fish water flowing through, its like a car which we can fine tune to run as smoothly as possible or rattle and roll all the way to the same destination, it really depends on the aims/objectives of the operator. I have learn't so many tips and tricks from the experienced rafters, like Chris, David, others, and from personal experience, on this site, to know that floating raft is a complex AP which can always be improved upon, as the operator gains experience over time.</p>
Wow, thanks for posting th…tag:aquaponicgardening.ning.com,2011-10-23:4778851:Comment:2366232011-10-23T11:17:54.005ZDavid Harthttps://aquaponicgardening.ning.com/profile/DavidHart
<font face="Verdana"><b> </b><br />
</font><div class="description xj_comment_editor xg_user_generated" id="desc_4778851Comment236623"><p><font face="Verdana">Wow, thanks for posting the pictures Chris. That's incredible.</font></p>
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<div class="description xj_comment_editor xg_user_generated" id="desc_4778851Comment236623"><p><font face="Verdana">Alpine AP, you made some great points....I too, would think the water flow would mix the DO…</font></p>
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</font><div id="desc_4778851Comment236623" class="description xj_comment_editor xg_user_generated"><font face="Verdana">
</font><p><font face="Verdana">Wow, thanks for posting the pictures Chris. That's incredible.</font></p>
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</font><p><font face="Verdana">Alpine AP, you made some great points....I too, would think the water flow would mix the DO some (?) Bubbles, themselves 'normally' move/mix the water to some degree. With that many roots, they must prevent the 'mixing' of the water.</font></p>
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<font face="Verdana"><br id="ecxFontBreak"/></font><br/><br/> Coming from the hydro world t…tag:aquaponicgardening.ning.com,2011-10-23:4778851:Comment:2365142011-10-23T06:42:13.533ZAlpine Aquaponicshttps://aquaponicgardening.ning.com/profile/AlpineAquaponics
<p>Coming from the hydro world that amount of aeration looks like practically NOTHING! Im curious how fast his flow is, it must be reeeally slow for the DO in the water to not mix. Im having a hard time wrapping my head around the fact that plants can be that different so close together, I've never seen anything like that</p>
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<p>In my experience DO is the most important factor for speed of growth. The return on getting more harvests would almost definitely make up for the extra cost…</p>
<p>Coming from the hydro world that amount of aeration looks like practically NOTHING! Im curious how fast his flow is, it must be reeeally slow for the DO in the water to not mix. Im having a hard time wrapping my head around the fact that plants can be that different so close together, I've never seen anything like that</p>
<p> </p>
<p>In my experience DO is the most important factor for speed of growth. The return on getting more harvests would almost definitely make up for the extra cost of adding more air</p>
<p> </p>
<p>Ideally it would be better the make the troughs shallower if the water flow is that slow, that way less air can have a greater effect. Root space is important, but that is way more than what's needed. The main thing to worry about is the relationship between speed of flow and depth of water - the roots cant be flyin around and entangling one another or harvesting is a problem. You want just enough depth so the roots can hang straight down, but having plant sites that close makes it an unavoidable problem anyway I'd guess</p>
<blockquote cite="http://aquaponicscommunity.com/forum/topics/trough-aeration-increases?groupUrl=raftdeepwaterculturegrowers&commentId=4778851%3AComment%3A236310&xg_source=msg_com_gr_forum#4778851Comment236310"><div><div class="xg_user_generated"></div>
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</blockquote> I visited a friends farm toda…tag:aquaponicgardening.ning.com,2011-10-23:4778851:Comment:2363102011-10-23T04:38:47.256ZChris Smithhttps://aquaponicgardening.ning.com/profile/ChrisSmith
<p>I visited a friends farm today where I saw an obvious example of the effects of aeration in the trough.</p>
<p><a href="http://storage.ning.com/topology/rest/1.0/file/get/2772191210?profile=original" target="_self"><img class="align-center" src="http://storage.ning.com/topology/rest/1.0/file/get/2772191210?profile=RESIZE_1024x1024" width="500"></img></a> This trough has 3 soaker hoses running down the length. The middle hose has clogged up and is no longer putting out bubbles. The difference in growth is very apparent.…</p>
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<p>I visited a friends farm today where I saw an obvious example of the effects of aeration in the trough.</p>
<p><a target="_self" href="http://storage.ning.com/topology/rest/1.0/file/get/2772191210?profile=original"><img width="500" class="align-center" src="http://storage.ning.com/topology/rest/1.0/file/get/2772191210?profile=RESIZE_1024x1024" width="500"/></a>This trough has 3 soaker hoses running down the length. The middle hose has clogged up and is no longer putting out bubbles. The difference in growth is very apparent.</p>
<p><a target="_self" href="http://storage.ning.com/topology/rest/1.0/file/get/2772191627?profile=original"><img width="500" class="align-center" src="http://storage.ning.com/topology/rest/1.0/file/get/2772191627?profile=RESIZE_1024x1024" width="500"/></a></p>
<p><a target="_self" href="http://storage.ning.com/topology/rest/1.0/file/get/2772192723?profile=original"><br/></a>If you look closely there are bubbles on the right and left sides but not in the middle.</p>
<p><a target="_self" href="http://storage.ning.com/topology/rest/1.0/file/get/2772192723?profile=original"><img width="500" class="align-center" src="http://storage.ning.com/topology/rest/1.0/file/get/2772192723?profile=RESIZE_1024x1024" width="500"/></a></p> ?...
Sahib Punjabi said:
Hel…tag:aquaponicgardening.ning.com,2011-03-10:4778851:Comment:614022011-03-10T22:09:01.753ZSahib Punjabihttps://aquaponicgardening.ning.com/profile/SahibPunjabi
?...<br></br>
<br></br>
<cite>Sahib Punjabi said:</cite><br />
<blockquote cite="http://aquaponicscommunity.com/forum/topics/trough-aeration-increases?groupUrl=raftdeepwaterculturegrowers&xg_source=msg_com_gr_forum&id=4778851%3ATopic%3A34512&groupId=4778851%3AGroup%3A28261&page=5#4778851Comment60260"><div><p>Hello Mel,</p>
<p><br></br> I cannot find much details on the web and I believe that this is a "special" air pump made for Aquatic Eco-Systems. I have scanned the psi/cfm info so you can see…</p>
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?...<br/>
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<cite>Sahib Punjabi said:</cite><br />
<blockquote cite="http://aquaponicscommunity.com/forum/topics/trough-aeration-increases?groupUrl=raftdeepwaterculturegrowers&xg_source=msg_com_gr_forum&id=4778851%3ATopic%3A34512&groupId=4778851%3AGroup%3A28261&page=5#4778851Comment60260"><div><p>Hello Mel,</p>
<p><br/> I cannot find much details on the web and I believe that this is a "special" air pump made for Aquatic Eco-Systems. I have scanned the psi/cfm info so you can see the efficiency and perhaps fill me in too :-)</p>
<p> </p>
<p><a target="_self" href="http://storage.ning.com/topology/rest/1.0/file/get/2772177300?profile=original"><img width="721" class="align-full" src="http://storage.ning.com/topology/rest/1.0/file/get/2772177300?profile=RESIZE_1024x1024" width="721"/></a></p>
<p><cite>Mel Soule said:</cite></p>
<blockquote cite="http://aquaponicscommunity.com/forum/topics/trough-aeration-increases?groupUrl=raftdeepwaterculturegrowers&commentId=4778851%3AComment%3A60190&xg_source=msg_com_gr_forum#4778851Comment59860"><div><p>Great summary article Harold. Thank you.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>Sahib, I don't know if you saw my questions above. I messed up my composition of the post trying to refer to your, so my comment is buried. Here they are again:</p>
<p> </p>
<p> </p>
<div> Sahib, you note your pumps are 50 watt. Are they rated at 3600 cu.in/min?</div>
<div>Also what kind of tubing are you using to each airstone soft wall tubing or rigid wall tubing?</div>
<div>I ask about the wall type on the tubing only because in another life, at university when I managed the Biology Dept. fish tank lab, we found the rigid wall better at reducing pressure drop from the manifold to the dispersing stone. </div>
<div>Thanks</div>
<div>Mel</div>
<p> </p>
<p> </p>
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</blockquote> Hi Mel,
Yes i agree their was…tag:aquaponicgardening.ning.com,2011-03-10:4778851:Comment:602632011-03-10T04:29:48.305ZHarold Sukhbirhttps://aquaponicgardening.ning.com/profile/HaroldSukhbir
Hi Mel,<br />
Yes i agree their was no clarification in the study on reasons for growth rates between inline and staggered. Hoping we can uncover a subsequent study to explain and in the meantime open this up for discussion here or in the group. The only variables i can see are flow rate and or DO levels.<br />
<br />
On the question of trough depth, most hydroponic studies I've seen are done with this 12 inch marker depth, and Friendly Aquaponic recommends this in AP as well. I see that the minimum of both…
Hi Mel,<br />
Yes i agree their was no clarification in the study on reasons for growth rates between inline and staggered. Hoping we can uncover a subsequent study to explain and in the meantime open this up for discussion here or in the group. The only variables i can see are flow rate and or DO levels.<br />
<br />
On the question of trough depth, most hydroponic studies I've seen are done with this 12 inch marker depth, and Friendly Aquaponic recommends this in AP as well. I see that the minimum of both media beds and troughs in AP is the suggested 12 inch standard depth.<br />
<br />
Hope you decide to initiate your raft system soon and i know there are many highly experienced Rafters in your group always ready to discuss issues if they should arise. I've been running a raft for the past 4 weeks, the growth is amazing, and it's loads of fun. Hello Mel,
I cannot find muc…tag:aquaponicgardening.ning.com,2011-03-10:4778851:Comment:602602011-03-10T04:18:01.493ZSahib Punjabihttps://aquaponicgardening.ning.com/profile/SahibPunjabi
<p>Hello Mel,</p>
<p><br></br> I cannot find much details on the web and I believe that this is a "special" air pump made for Aquatic Eco-Systems. I have scanned the psi/cfm info so you can see the efficiency and perhaps fill me in too :-)</p>
<p> </p>
<p><a href="http://storage.ning.com/topology/rest/1.0/file/get/2772177300?profile=original" target="_self"><img class="align-full" src="http://storage.ning.com/topology/rest/1.0/file/get/2772177300?profile=RESIZE_1024x1024" width="721"></img></a></p>
<p><cite>Mel Soule said:…</cite></p>
<p>Hello Mel,</p>
<p><br/> I cannot find much details on the web and I believe that this is a "special" air pump made for Aquatic Eco-Systems. I have scanned the psi/cfm info so you can see the efficiency and perhaps fill me in too :-)</p>
<p> </p>
<p><a target="_self" href="http://storage.ning.com/topology/rest/1.0/file/get/2772177300?profile=original"><img width="721" class="align-full" src="http://storage.ning.com/topology/rest/1.0/file/get/2772177300?profile=RESIZE_1024x1024" width="721"/></a></p>
<p><cite>Mel Soule said:</cite></p>
<blockquote cite="http://aquaponicscommunity.com/forum/topics/trough-aeration-increases?groupUrl=raftdeepwaterculturegrowers&commentId=4778851%3AComment%3A60190&xg_source=msg_com_gr_forum#4778851Comment59860"><div><p>Great summary article Harold. Thank you.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>Sahib, I don't know if you saw my questions above. I messed up my composition of the post trying to refer to your, so my comment is buried. Here they are again:</p>
<p> </p>
<p> </p>
<div> Sahib, you note your pumps are 50 watt. Are they rated at 3600 cu.in/min?</div>
<div>Also what kind of tubing are you using to each airstone soft wall tubing or rigid wall tubing?</div>
<div>I ask about the wall type on the tubing only because in another life, at university when I managed the Biology Dept. fish tank lab, we found the rigid wall better at reducing pressure drop from the manifold to the dispersing stone. </div>
<div>Thanks</div>
<div>Mel</div>
<p> </p>
<p> </p>
</div>
</blockquote> The important information abo…tag:aquaponicgardening.ning.com,2011-03-10:4778851:Comment:601902011-03-10T03:27:13.965ZMel Soulehttps://aquaponicgardening.ning.com/profile/MelSoule
<p>The important information about D/O in inline vs staggered is not visible to me. The author notes a general D/O recommendation but does not correlate that to the inline vs staggered growth results.. Their grow tank appears to have an aeration trunk line running down the center of the tank with outlets at every 3.5 meters over the 70 meter length. I would like to have seen D/O on the growth medium inlet end of growth tank and the D/O at the return to the growth medium reservoir. I would…</p>
<p>The important information about D/O in inline vs staggered is not visible to me. The author notes a general D/O recommendation but does not correlate that to the inline vs staggered growth results.. Their grow tank appears to have an aeration trunk line running down the center of the tank with outlets at every 3.5 meters over the 70 meter length. I would like to have seen D/O on the growth medium inlet end of growth tank and the D/O at the return to the growth medium reservoir. I would also like to have seen the colder water temperature growth results of the inline versus staggered runs. I'm assuming they draw the conclusion of reduced growth/head with the only independent variable being inline vs staggered plant spacing.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>Harold, I do not yet have a system built and running but have been trying to learn as much as possible but I wondered when I read their grow tank dimensions at 30cm depth. that seemed deep for plants. Is that 30 cm depth a traditional design number?</p> Lot of salient points in the…tag:aquaponicgardening.ning.com,2011-03-09:4778851:Comment:602062011-03-09T18:53:51.085ZHarold Sukhbirhttps://aquaponicgardening.ning.com/profile/HaroldSukhbir
Lot of salient points in the study. Notice the results of growth rates on inline spacing vs staggered spacing. I believe the inline spacing offers channels for aerated water flow while staggered allows restricted flow and keeps aerated water increasingly at the bottom of the root system as the plants grow. So to get better growth and avoid anaerobic conditions in using staggered spacings, we will have to, as a matter of course, to in-cooperate supplemental aeration. <br></br>
<br></br>
<cite>Sahib…</cite>
Lot of salient points in the study. Notice the results of growth rates on inline spacing vs staggered spacing. I believe the inline spacing offers channels for aerated water flow while staggered allows restricted flow and keeps aerated water increasingly at the bottom of the root system as the plants grow. So to get better growth and avoid anaerobic conditions in using staggered spacings, we will have to, as a matter of course, to in-cooperate supplemental aeration. <br/>
<br/>
<cite>Sahib Punjabi said:</cite><br />
<blockquote cite="http://aquaponicscommunity.com/forum/topics/trough-aeration-increases?groupUrl=raftdeepwaterculturegrowers&commentId=4778851%3AComment%3A59860&xg_source=msg_com_gr_forum#4778851Comment60001"><div>Thanks Sukhbir Sir...very good info to consider and incorporate in AP systems :-)</div>
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