Tap Water and PH - Aquaponic Gardening2024-03-29T01:43:10Zhttps://aquaponicgardening.ning.com/forum/topics/tap-water-and-ph?commentId=4778851%3AComment%3A1914&feed=yes&xn_auth=nothis is useful, thanks!
tag:aquaponicgardening.ning.com,2011-05-24:4778851:Comment:1165292011-05-24T02:20:50.852ZRobinhttps://aquaponicgardening.ning.com/profile/Robin
<p>this is useful, thanks!</p>
<p> </p>
<p>this is useful, thanks!</p>
<p> </p> In Washington State it is req…tag:aquaponicgardening.ning.com,2011-04-24:4778851:Comment:965322011-04-24T03:12:20.006ZLon Wellshttps://aquaponicgardening.ning.com/profile/LonWells
In Washington State it is required that a business has a MSDS sheet for every product that is on the premises, and that those MSDS sheets are available for every employee to view. It is a wise practice and it make me look for healthier product to use. <br></br>
<br></br>
<cite>RupertofOZ said:</cite><br />
<blockquote cite="http://aquaponicscommunity.com/forum/topics/tap-water-and-ph?commentId=4778851%3AComment%3A1948#4778851Comment1953"><div><cite>Emma Lysyk said:…</cite></div>
</blockquote>
In Washington State it is required that a business has a MSDS sheet for every product that is on the premises, and that those MSDS sheets are available for every employee to view. It is a wise practice and it make me look for healthier product to use. <br/>
<br/>
<cite>RupertofOZ said:</cite><br />
<blockquote cite="http://aquaponicscommunity.com/forum/topics/tap-water-and-ph?commentId=4778851%3AComment%3A1948#4778851Comment1953"><div><cite>Emma Lysyk said:</cite><blockquote cite="http://aquaponicgardening.ning.com/forum/topics/tap-water-and-ph?xg_source=activity&id=4778851%3ATopic%3A848&page=2#4778851Comment1951"><div>A friend suggested an additive called Blackwater. Would this contain buffer, or do I need to get a more concentrated version?</div>
</blockquote>
<br/>
Emma, firstly let me ensure you that I realise that you run ornamental fish... as opposed to most in aquaponics that stock freshwater fish for eventual human consumption...<br/>
<br/>
And to assure you that nothing personal is intended in any way...<br/>
<br/>
And to declare quite clearly my almost universal to all aquaria based products... as most on other forums would no doubt be aware...<br/>
<br/>
Why.... quite simply because most are poisonous and or carcenogenic... and extremely hazardous to human health...<br/>
<br/>
To be specific about the "Blackwater" product you mention...<br/>
<br/>
Firstly... No ... it does not contain any pH buffering agents what so ever...<br/>
<br/>
Secondly, after a little research... frankly I think the manufacturer should be sued for complete mis-representation and mis-labelling....<br/>
<br/>
The product description reads...<br/>
<br/>
<blockquote>Blackwater Extract contains trace elements, vitamins and extract of peat. It replicates blackwater conditions by creating clear, “natural”, Amazon-biotope conditions in the aquarium. Blackwater Extract promotes fish activity levels and is an excellent conditioner for all soft-water fish including discus, angelfish, tetras and killifish.</blockquote>
<br/>
<a rel="nofollow" href="http://www.tetra-fish.com/sites/tetrafish/catalog/productdetail.aspx?id=1276&cid=76" target="_blank">http://www.tetra-fish.com/sites/tetrafish/catalog/productdetail.asp...</a><br/>
<br/>
But once I found the MSDS... I found that the product actually contains NONE of these things... or at least NONE of them are the "principal" ingredients...<br/>
<br/>
The "principle ingredient" is in fact a Class 1 poison... banned, or heavily restricted in aquaculture... with known human side affects and issues of "sensitisation".... which I wont bother to reference at this stage...unless people wish to know...<br/>
<br/>
The principle ingredient is often used in aquaculture.. for disease control, principally for treatment of severe finrot and parasites like "ICH"... perhaps their justification for "happy, smiley fish"...<br/>
<br/>
The MSDS... <a rel="nofollow" href="http://whatsinproducts.com/msds.php?brandId=7988&PHPSESSID=754a2a121e71153f9c8903a8fddabb87" target="_blank">http://whatsinproducts.com/msds.php?brandId=7988&PHPSESSID=754a...</a><br/>
<br/>
Clearly states the principle ingredient .... as Formaldehyde ... "Formalin" ...<br/>
<br/>
And frankly, compared to the Australian MSDS for Formaldehyde/Formalin... is soooo understated and benign... as to be concerning...<br/>
<br/>
For those that want to persue it further... try googling "formalin"... or "toxic affects of formalin".. etc, etc...<br/>
<br/>
It is extremely scary stuff... albeit that this product might be susbstantially diluted...<br/>
<br/>
In standard form... inhalation, particularly in asthmatics... can cause respitory collapse... and full, almost hazmat style suits are recommended... at least here in OZ...<br/>
<br/>
IMO... other than perhaps for those stocking ornamentals... dont use it... in fact IMO... don't use any aquaria products in aquaponic systems which contain fish you intend to eat...</div>
</blockquote> I've found that a SMALL quant…tag:aquaponicgardening.ning.com,2010-11-06:4778851:Comment:203382010-11-06T04:32:21.000ZKate Minkhttps://aquaponicgardening.ning.com/profile/KateMink
I've found that a SMALL quantity of vinegar from time to time lowers the pH in my system (raft; tilapia) and doesn't bother fish or plants at all. I've let it all run at 7.4 to 7.6, used the vinegar when it pushed up to 8, may start trying to run it lower.<br />
<br></br>
<br></br>
<cite>Jeff Givan said:</cite><blockquote cite="http://aquaponicscommunity.com/forum/topics/tap-water-and-ph?id=4778851%3ATopic%3A848&page=1#4778851Comment1278"><div>Thanks for your help TC. We live out in the desert in So.…</div>
</blockquote>
I've found that a SMALL quantity of vinegar from time to time lowers the pH in my system (raft; tilapia) and doesn't bother fish or plants at all. I've let it all run at 7.4 to 7.6, used the vinegar when it pushed up to 8, may start trying to run it lower.<br />
<br/>
<br/>
<cite>Jeff Givan said:</cite><blockquote cite="http://aquaponicscommunity.com/forum/topics/tap-water-and-ph?id=4778851%3ATopic%3A848&page=1#4778851Comment1278"><div>Thanks for your help TC. We live out in the desert in So. California. All of our water is either pumped from a giant underground aquifer, but most of it comes from what they call the American Canal, which is basically the Colorado River. Most of these canals are lined with concrete. And, the water from the aquifer is also very high in ph. So, I am doomed with high ph. I just tested this morning after a long period of not testing and the spagnum peat moss is working. It is down around 7.5. I learned this trick from the old days of raising an Amazonian fish in aquariums. The only drawback is that it makes the water a little brown. When doing it in the aquarium I put a biofilter on the back of the tank and instead of having media I would just keep stuffing the peat moss in there, but it has to be spagnum. Back then it was long and stringy, now days it is ground up so I have to put it in fine material so it doesn't make a mess in the pond. I also have in the house a 135 gallon aquarium and I have the opposite problem with that. My ph in there runs between 6.5 and 7.0 and I use the same water. The difference is that in the aquarium I have 2 huge pieces of drift wood that help soften the water. The rocks in the bottom of the pond are river rock of the granite persuasion. I do have red sandstone in the waterfall that only runs about 2 hours a day. I know that is not helping, but not hurting a lot. I will change that in time.<br/> <br/>
<cite>TCLynx said:</cite><blockquote cite="http://aquaponicgardening.ning.com/forum/topics/tap-water-and-ph?commentId=4778851%3AComment%3A1277&xg_source=msg_com_forum#4778851Comment1277"><div>Oyster shells are a calcium carbonate type buffer that will keep pH from dropping too low. Basically they tend to help keep pH above 7.6. They DO NOT lower pH.<br/> <br/> FYI, I have attempted to lower pH in a system that is really strongly buffered to 7.6, it doesn't work. You might lower the pH temporarily but as long as some of the buffer remains, it will dissolve some more and raise the pH back up.<br/>
<br/>
Jeff, do you have any rocks or concrete or plaster or anything that might affect the pH in your pond? I expect that if you were to aerate your tap water in a bucket for a day and then test the pH again, you will find that the tap water has a pH even closer to 9. What is your source water, well water?<br/>
<br/>
A heavily loaded bio-filter can compete a bit with high pH media but only to an extent. I've seen my AP system get down as low as 7 when there was a heavy load of fish and the feed rate was high but now that the temps are cooler, the pH is back up.</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</blockquote> Very true- it's also good to…tag:aquaponicgardening.ning.com,2010-03-27:4778851:Comment:19962010-03-27T01:18:35.000ZNate Storeyhttps://aquaponicgardening.ning.com/profile/NateStorey
Very true- it's also good to remember that nutrient uptake by your plants can have an effect on pH, although it's usually drawn out over time, or limited to times where the system goes from unstocked with plants to highly stocked (i.e. batch planting- not ideal) depending on what your nutrient load/composition is, plants can impact your pH by selectively taking positively or negatively charged ions out of solution. . . not a huge impact compared to moss, biofilters, barley straw, bogs, etc. but…
Very true- it's also good to remember that nutrient uptake by your plants can have an effect on pH, although it's usually drawn out over time, or limited to times where the system goes from unstocked with plants to highly stocked (i.e. batch planting- not ideal) depending on what your nutrient load/composition is, plants can impact your pH by selectively taking positively or negatively charged ions out of solution. . . not a huge impact compared to moss, biofilters, barley straw, bogs, etc. but definitely an impact. . . thought i'd throw that out there if we're trying to figure out all of the things that can throw your pH off. : )<br />
<br />
<cite>TCLynx said:</cite><blockquote cite="http://aquaponicgardening.ning.com/forum/topics/tap-water-and-ph?commentId=4778851%3AComment%3A1970#4778851Comment1970"><div>The drift wood or peat can help lower pH but they are not a "buffer." In an aquaponics system where you are not doing extensive or regular water changes, the action of the bio filter long term will bring system pH down over time if there is no buffer in it.</div>
</blockquote> The drift wood or peat can he…tag:aquaponicgardening.ning.com,2010-03-26:4778851:Comment:19702010-03-26T01:49:28.000ZTCLynxhttps://aquaponicgardening.ning.com/profile/TCLynx
The drift wood or peat can help lower pH but they are not a "buffer." In an aquaponics system where you are not doing extensive or regular water changes, the action of the bio filter long term will bring system pH down over time if there is no buffer in it.
The drift wood or peat can help lower pH but they are not a "buffer." In an aquaponics system where you are not doing extensive or regular water changes, the action of the bio filter long term will bring system pH down over time if there is no buffer in it. Oh! The one it was is Kent Bl…tag:aquaponicgardening.ning.com,2010-03-25:4778851:Comment:19682010-03-25T22:53:43.000ZEmma Lysykhttps://aquaponicgardening.ning.com/profile/EmmaLysyk
Oh! The one it was is Kent Black Water Expert. Looking at it closer, I don't think adding more humic and tannic acids would help.
Oh! The one it was is Kent Black Water Expert. Looking at it closer, I don't think adding more humic and tannic acids would help. Hi Emma! I have the same thin…tag:aquaponicgardening.ning.com,2010-03-25:4778851:Comment:19672010-03-25T21:48:17.000ZJeff Givanhttps://aquaponicgardening.ning.com/profile/JeffGivan
Hi Emma! I have the same thing going on with my pond and my 135 gallon tank. I have driftwood in the tank and none in the pond. Our tap water is very high in ph. But, in my tank it is right around 6.8-7.0 because of the driftwood. Back in the old days I raised wild Discus fish which are from the Amazon and they love low ph water so I had a back filter on my tank that I filled with Spagnum Peat Moss and would just keep packing it in as it rotted. It gave the tank a brownish tint, but lowered the…
Hi Emma! I have the same thing going on with my pond and my 135 gallon tank. I have driftwood in the tank and none in the pond. Our tap water is very high in ph. But, in my tank it is right around 6.8-7.0 because of the driftwood. Back in the old days I raised wild Discus fish which are from the Amazon and they love low ph water so I had a back filter on my tank that I filled with Spagnum Peat Moss and would just keep packing it in as it rotted. It gave the tank a brownish tint, but lowered the ph. I am using the same concept in my pond here, because of our really high ph tap water. It is helping, but takes awhile to get the process started. If you think about it the Amazon has a lot of debris that falls into the water and rots such as trees and leaves. This creates much more acidic water. Guess we all have to be vigilant at finding what works best for what we are given! Thank you, Rupert, that's pre…tag:aquaponicgardening.ning.com,2010-03-25:4778851:Comment:19552010-03-25T14:18:05.000ZEmma Lysykhttps://aquaponicgardening.ning.com/profile/EmmaLysyk
Thank you, Rupert, that's precisely what I was looking for. I want to use the same tank for edible fish and don't want to contaminate it, so I've been trying to keep that in consideration.
Thank you, Rupert, that's precisely what I was looking for. I want to use the same tank for edible fish and don't want to contaminate it, so I've been trying to keep that in consideration. Here's a couple of other MSDS…tag:aquaponicgardening.ning.com,2010-03-25:4778851:Comment:19542010-03-25T12:44:04.000ZRupertofOZhttps://aquaponicgardening.ning.com/profile/RupertofOZ
Here's a couple of other MSDS and links... decide for yourselves..<br />
<br />
<a href="http://www.jtbaker.com/msds/englishhtml/f5605.htm" target="_blank">http://www.jtbaker.com/msds/englishhtml/f5605.htm</a><br />
<br />
<a href="http://www.kendon.com.au/Catalogue/MSDS/Industrial/Formaldehyde.htm" target="_blank">http://www.kendon.com.au/Catalogue/MSDS/Industrial/Formaldehyde.htm</a><br />
<br />
<a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Formaldehyde" target="_blank">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Formaldehyde…</a>
Here's a couple of other MSDS and links... decide for yourselves..<br />
<br />
<a href="http://www.jtbaker.com/msds/englishhtml/f5605.htm" target="_blank">http://www.jtbaker.com/msds/englishhtml/f5605.htm</a><br />
<br />
<a href="http://www.kendon.com.au/Catalogue/MSDS/Industrial/Formaldehyde.htm" target="_blank">http://www.kendon.com.au/Catalogue/MSDS/Industrial/Formaldehyde.htm</a><br />
<br />
<a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Formaldehyde" target="_blank">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Formaldehyde</a><br />
<br />
<a href="http://www.nicnas.gov.au/Publications/CAR/PEC/PEC28/PEC_28_Full_Report_PDF.pdf" target="_blank">http://www.nicnas.gov.au/Publications/CAR/PEC/PEC28/PEC_28_Full_Report_PDF.pdf</a> Emma Lysyk said:A friend sugg…tag:aquaponicgardening.ning.com,2010-03-25:4778851:Comment:19532010-03-25T12:27:17.000ZRupertofOZhttps://aquaponicgardening.ning.com/profile/RupertofOZ
<cite>Emma Lysyk said:</cite><blockquote cite="http://aquaponicgardening.ning.com/forum/topics/tap-water-and-ph?xg_source=activity&id=4778851%3ATopic%3A848&page=2#4778851Comment1951"><div>A friend suggested an additive called Blackwater. Would this contain buffer, or do I need to get a more concentrated version?</div>
</blockquote>
<br />
Emma, firstly let me ensure you that I realise that you run ornamental fish... as opposed to most in aquaponics that stock freshwater fish for eventual…
<cite>Emma Lysyk said:</cite><blockquote cite="http://aquaponicgardening.ning.com/forum/topics/tap-water-and-ph?xg_source=activity&id=4778851%3ATopic%3A848&page=2#4778851Comment1951"><div>A friend suggested an additive called Blackwater. Would this contain buffer, or do I need to get a more concentrated version?</div>
</blockquote>
<br />
Emma, firstly let me ensure you that I realise that you run ornamental fish... as opposed to most in aquaponics that stock freshwater fish for eventual human consumption...<br />
<br />
And to assure you that nothing personal is intended in any way...<br />
<br />
And to declare quite clearly my almost universal to all aquaria based products... as most on other forums would no doubt be aware...<br />
<br />
Why.... quite simply because most are poisonous and or carcenogenic... and extremely hazardous to human health...<br />
<br />
To be specific about the "Blackwater" product you mention...<br />
<br />
Firstly... No ... it does not contain any pH buffering agents what so ever...<br />
<br />
Secondly, after a little research... frankly I think the manufacturer should be sued for complete mis-representation and mis-labelling....<br />
<br />
The product description reads...<br />
<br />
<blockquote>Blackwater Extract contains trace elements, vitamins and extract of peat. It replicates blackwater conditions by creating clear, “natural”, Amazon-biotope conditions in the aquarium. Blackwater Extract promotes fish activity levels and is an excellent conditioner for all soft-water fish including discus, angelfish, tetras and killifish.</blockquote>
<br />
<a href="http://www.tetra-fish.com/sites/tetrafish/catalog/productdetail.aspx?id=1276&cid=76" target="_blank">http://www.tetra-fish.com/sites/tetrafish/catalog/productdetail.asp...</a><br />
<br />
But once I found the MSDS... I found that the product actually contains NONE of these things... or at least NONE of them are the "principal" ingredients...<br />
<br />
The "principle ingredient" is in fact a Class 1 poison... banned, or heavily restricted in aquaculture... with known human side affects and issues of "sensitisation".... which I wont bother to reference at this stage...unless people wish to know...<br />
<br />
The principle ingredient is often used in aquaculture.. for disease control, principally for treatment of severe finrot and parasites like "ICH"... perhaps their justification for "happy, smiley fish"...<br />
<br />
The MSDS... <a href="http://whatsinproducts.com/msds.php?brandId=7988&PHPSESSID=754a2a121e71153f9c8903a8fddabb87" target="_blank">http://whatsinproducts.com/msds.php?brandId=7988&PHPSESSID=754a...</a><br />
<br />
Clearly states the principle ingredient .... as Formaldehyde ... "Formalin" ...<br />
<br />
And frankly, compared to the Australian MSDS for Formaldehyde/Formalin... is soooo understated and benign... as to be concerning...<br />
<br />
For those that want to persue it further... try googling "formalin"... or "toxic affects of formalin".. etc, etc...<br />
<br />
It is extremely scary stuff... albeit that this product might be susbstantially diluted...<br />
<br />
In standard form... inhalation, particularly in asthmatics... can cause respitory collapse... and full, almost hazmat style suits are recommended... at least here in OZ...<br />
<br />
IMO... other than perhaps for those stocking ornamentals... dont use it... in fact IMO... don't use any aquaria products in aquaponic systems which contain fish you intend to eat...