Sump Tank Size

[David Jones]

Sump Tank Size.   Hi

, I will have a 892 gl fish tank. 3 grow beds that are 4x8, and 3 at 4x4. What size sump tank w/chop 2 system. A 1/3 hp pump. it will go up 10 to 12 ft ht for about a dozen vertical grow tubes in year or two. Also if I split fish tank into thirds with 3 sizes of Talapia, wouldn't I be able to have more fish considering only 1/3 will be mature at a time? I think I know but just to be sure I would like to know what you think to be sure. Thanks     Dave        Oh yea, The grow beds will be draining at staggerd times.

[Robert Vinson]

Your grow beds hold almost 988 gallons 60% of which is displaced by media. Leaving 395 gallons of water capacity if all beds were to fill at the same time. That is a minimum needed so also take into consideration that you need enough water left in the sump tank at this point to still keep the pump submerged. As for fish loading separating them does not reduce the load on the system, you still have a fish to water ratio you want to stay with. Usually accepted one pound of fish for every five to ten gallons of water.

[Vlad Jovanovic]

Good luck keeping those 6 beds filling and draining in concert (your desired staggered times) long term...and consistently. IMO you are better off using an indexing valve and a repeat cycle timer.

That way you wont need a 450 to 500 gallon sump since the indexing valve (also sometimes called a 'sequencing valve' since you can then fill and drain each bed one at a time (or with some overlapping if you so desire.

A single 4'x8' bed that is filled to 11" high has a total volume of 219.42 US Gallons. A lightweight somewhat porous media will displace about 38% of that water...so that's136 gallons (plus you likely wont be filling it to 11"). Flooding it to a 10" height minus 38% displacement is about 124 gallons. And like Robert says, you need to account for some extra water volume in the sump so your pump doesn't run dry. So depending on its shape, you could get away with a 160 to 200 gallons...this is using an indexing valve to reliably sequence your flooding/draining regime.

Otherwise you'd be looking at a sump tank well over 500 gallons in order to avoid any "Oh Shit"! moments... 

[Robert Vinson]

Hey Vlad, Robbie here not sure why it says Robert. One of us must be having a dyslexic moment. I was sure clay displaced more only leaving 38% available for water. Regardless all the math we each did is correct and I agree that this size of a system sequencing is a great idea. I wish we offered them.
So buddy which is correct? I I have never done my own volume test I just trusted what I was taught, lol!

Hope you are well

Vlad Jovanovic said:

Good luck keeping those 6 beds filling and draining in concert (your desired staggered times) long term...and consistently. IMO you are better off using an indexing valve and a repeat cycle timer.

That way you wont need a 450 to 500 gallon sump since the indexing valve (also sometimes called a 'sequencing valve' since you can then fill and drain each bed one at a time (or with some overlapping if you so desire.

A single 4'x8' bed that is filled to 11" high has a total volume of 219.42 US Gallons. A lightweight somewhat porous media will displace about 38% of that water...so that's136 gallons (plus you likely wont be filling it to 11"). Flooding it to a 10" height minus 38% displacement is about 124 gallons. And like Robert says, you need to account for some extra water volume in the sump so your pump doesn't run dry. So depending on its shape, you could get away with a 160 to 200 gallons...this is using an indexing valve to reliably sequence your flooding/draining regime.

Otherwise you'd be looking at a sump tank well over 500 gallons in order to avoid any "Oh Shit"! moments... 

[Vlad Jovanovic]

Hey there Robbie,

Since I actually am a bit dyslexic...that would probably be me :)

Displacement would leave room for about 38% water...and not the other way around. 

So a 160 gallon sump (using an indexing valve) would be plenty...

If you guys, or any of your customers ever need them, we sell them here at Atria...

http://stores.atriaaquagardens.com/1-6-outlet-hydro-aquaponic-index...

All of our indexing valves have been modified to work with smaller less powerful pumps (unlike the valves that you would find at the BigBox stores).

Robert Vinson said:

Hey Vlad, Robbie here not sure why it says Robert. One of us must be having a dyslexic moment. I was sure clay displaced more only leaving 38% available for water. Regardless all the math we each did is correct and I agree that this size of a system sequencing is a great idea. I wish we offered them.
So buddy which is correct? I I have never done my own volume test I just trusted what I was taught, lol!

Hope you are well

Vlad Jovanovic said:

Good luck keeping those 6 beds filling and draining in concert (your desired staggered times) long term...and consistently. IMO you are better off using an indexing valve and a repeat cycle timer.

That way you wont need a 450 to 500 gallon sump since the indexing valve (also sometimes called a 'sequencing valve' since you can then fill and drain each bed one at a time (or with some overlapping if you so desire.

A single 4'x8' bed that is filled to 11" high has a total volume of 219.42 US Gallons. A lightweight somewhat porous media will displace about 38% of that water...so that's136 gallons (plus you likely wont be filling it to 11"). Flooding it to a 10" height minus 38% displacement is about 124 gallons. And like Robert says, you need to account for some extra water volume in the sump so your pump doesn't run dry. So depending on its shape, you could get away with a 160 to 200 gallons...this is using an indexing valve to reliably sequence your flooding/draining regime.

Otherwise you'd be looking at a sump tank well over 500 gallons in order to avoid any "Oh Shit"! moments... 

[David Jones]

Robert and Vlad  Thanks for the advice. We decided to have 3 beds 4x12 instead. That indexing valve sounds good. Having a smaller sump will be a lot less digging (by hand). I have another question, our fish tank is 2.5 deep, 3ft and 17 ft long, along north wall. According to fish and water ratio, I can have  just so many fish. What if I wanted to split the tank into thirds ( with a net), then shouldn't I be able to have more fish now that only a third will be mature? Then when they are harvested add more, then 3 months later the next set of fish will be mature and so on and so on?

 
Robert Vinson said:

Hey Vlad, Robbie here not sure why it says Robert. One of us must be having a dyslexic moment. I was sure clay displaced more only leaving 38% available for water. Regardless all the math we each did is correct and I agree that this size of a system sequencing is a great idea. I wish we offered them.
So buddy which is correct? I I have never done my own volume test I just trusted what I was taught, lol!

Hope you are well

Vlad Jovanovic said:

Good luck keeping those 6 beds filling and draining in concert (your desired staggered times) long term...and consistently. IMO you are better off using an indexing valve and a repeat cycle timer.

That way you wont need a 450 to 500 gallon sump since the indexing valve (also sometimes called a 'sequencing valve' since you can then fill and drain each bed one at a time (or with some overlapping if you so desire.

A single 4'x8' bed that is filled to 11" high has a total volume of 219.42 US Gallons. A lightweight somewhat porous media will displace about 38% of that water...so that's136 gallons (plus you likely wont be filling it to 11"). Flooding it to a 10" height minus 38% displacement is about 124 gallons. And like Robert says, you need to account for some extra water volume in the sump so your pump doesn't run dry. So depending on its shape, you could get away with a 160 to 200 gallons...this is using an indexing valve to reliably sequence your flooding/draining regime.

Otherwise you'd be looking at a sump tank well over 500 gallons in order to avoid any "Oh Shit"! moments... 

[Robert Vinson]

David, even if you separate the fish you still have the same number of fish in the same volume of water. As a matter of fact young fish can produce more waste during the growth period than more mature fish. I would still recommend sticking to the loading rules of thumb. 

David Jones said:

Robert and Vlad  Thanks for the advice. We decided to have 3 beds 4x12 instead. That indexing valve sounds good. Having a smaller sump will be a lot less digging (by hand). I have another question, our fish tank is 2.5 deep, 3ft and 17 ft long, along north wall. According to fish and water ratio, I can have  just so many fish. What if I wanted to split the tank into thirds ( with a net), then shouldn't I be able to have more fish now that only a third will be mature? Then when they are harvested add more, then 3 months later the next set of fish will be mature and so on and so on?

 
Robert Vinson said:

Hey Vlad, Robbie here not sure why it says Robert. One of us must be having a dyslexic moment. I was sure clay displaced more only leaving 38% available for water. Regardless all the math we each did is correct and I agree that this size of a system sequencing is a great idea. I wish we offered them.
So buddy which is correct? I I have never done my own volume test I just trusted what I was taught, lol!

Hope you are well

Vlad Jovanovic said:

Good luck keeping those 6 beds filling and draining in concert (your desired staggered times) long term...and consistently. IMO you are better off using an indexing valve and a repeat cycle timer.

That way you wont need a 450 to 500 gallon sump since the indexing valve (also sometimes called a 'sequencing valve' since you can then fill and drain each bed one at a time (or with some overlapping if you so desire.

A single 4'x8' bed that is filled to 11" high has a total volume of 219.42 US Gallons. A lightweight somewhat porous media will displace about 38% of that water...so that's136 gallons (plus you likely wont be filling it to 11"). Flooding it to a 10" height minus 38% displacement is about 124 gallons. And like Robert says, you need to account for some extra water volume in the sump so your pump doesn't run dry. So depending on its shape, you could get away with a 160 to 200 gallons...this is using an indexing valve to reliably sequence your flooding/draining regime.

Otherwise you'd be looking at a sump tank well over 500 gallons in order to avoid any "Oh Shit"! moments... 

[David Jones]

Vlad,  That's a bummer. How do we get around having mature fish to harvest, to having young fish, but the grow beds are full a plants needing mature fish to keep feeding them and the bacteria?
 
Robert Vinson said:

David, even if you separate the fish you still have the same number of fish in the same volume of water. As a matter of fact young fish can produce more waste during the growth period than more mature fish. I would still recommend sticking to the loading rules of thumb. 

David Jones said:

Robert and Vlad  Thanks for the advice. We decided to have 3 beds 4x12 instead. That indexing valve sounds good. Having a smaller sump will be a lot less digging (by hand). I have another question, our fish tank is 2.5 deep, 3ft and 17 ft long, along north wall. According to fish and water ratio, I can have  just so many fish. What if I wanted to split the tank into thirds ( with a net), then shouldn't I be able to have more fish now that only a third will be mature? Then when they are harvested add more, then 3 months later the next set of fish will be mature and so on and so on?

 
Robert Vinson said:

Hey Vlad, Robbie here not sure why it says Robert. One of us must be having a dyslexic moment. I was sure clay displaced more only leaving 38% available for water. Regardless all the math we each did is correct and I agree that this size of a system sequencing is a great idea. I wish we offered them.
So buddy which is correct? I I have never done my own volume test I just trusted what I was taught, lol!

Hope you are well

Vlad Jovanovic said:

Good luck keeping those 6 beds filling and draining in concert (your desired staggered times) long term...and consistently. IMO you are better off using an indexing valve and a repeat cycle timer.

That way you wont need a 450 to 500 gallon sump since the indexing valve (also sometimes called a 'sequencing valve' since you can then fill and drain each bed one at a time (or with some overlapping if you so desire.

A single 4'x8' bed that is filled to 11" high has a total volume of 219.42 US Gallons. A lightweight somewhat porous media will displace about 38% of that water...so that's136 gallons (plus you likely wont be filling it to 11"). Flooding it to a 10" height minus 38% displacement is about 124 gallons. And like Robert says, you need to account for some extra water volume in the sump so your pump doesn't run dry. So depending on its shape, you could get away with a 160 to 200 gallons...this is using an indexing valve to reliably sequence your flooding/draining regime.

Otherwise you'd be looking at a sump tank well over 500 gallons in order to avoid any "Oh Shit"! moments... 

[George]

Four feet wide beds are too wide, in my experience.

[Vlad Jovanovic]

Hi David...as Robbie already alluded to, 10 lbs of small fish will produce more ammonia (waste) than 10 lbs of large mature fish...so small fish will "feed your grow beds and bacteria" just as well as large fish will...pound per pound, they'll actually do a better job.

And don't stock your system according to the size of your fish tank, but rather according to the size of your bio-filtration capacity...