Salt Needs it's own thread. - Aquaponic Gardening2024-03-29T12:54:33Zhttps://aquaponicgardening.ning.com/forum/topics/salt-needs-its-own-thread?commentId=4778851%3AComment%3A358228&feed=yes&xn_auth=no@Eric - I see... It's just th…tag:aquaponicgardening.ning.com,2012-07-05:4778851:Comment:3590372012-07-05T23:11:50.631ZBob Campbellhttps://aquaponicgardening.ning.com/profile/BobCampbell
<p>@Eric - I see... It's just the units that cancel. The quantity remains as part if the equation. Got it</p>
<p><a style="cursor: pointer;"><img src="http://www.bkserv.net/images/Smile.gif"/>Thanks,</a></p>
<p>@Eric - I see... It's just the units that cancel. The quantity remains as part if the equation. Got it</p>
<p><a style="cursor: pointer;"><img src="http://www.bkserv.net/images/Smile.gif"/>Thanks,</a></p> For the thread I hijacked--he…tag:aquaponicgardening.ning.com,2012-07-05:4778851:Comment:3588912012-07-05T23:02:57.354ZEric Warwickhttps://aquaponicgardening.ning.com/profile/EricWarwick
<p>For the thread I hijacked--here's the new group: <a href="http://aquaponicscommunity.com/group/chemistry-math-and-aquaponics">http://aquaponicscommunity.com/group/chemistry-math-and-aquaponics</a> Ask as many questions as possible! Hope you like it!</p>
<p>For the thread I hijacked--here's the new group: <a href="http://aquaponicscommunity.com/group/chemistry-math-and-aquaponics">http://aquaponicscommunity.com/group/chemistry-math-and-aquaponics</a> Ask as many questions as possible! Hope you like it!</p> Making it right now! TCLynx…tag:aquaponicgardening.ning.com,2012-07-05:4778851:Comment:3591102012-07-05T21:45:56.737ZEric Warwickhttps://aquaponicgardening.ning.com/profile/EricWarwick
<p>Making it right now!<br/> <br/> <cite>TCLynx said:</cite></p>
<blockquote cite="http://aquaponicscommunity.com/forum/topics/salt-needs-its-own-thread?commentId=4778851%3AComment%3A358962&xg_source=msg_com_forum#4778851Comment358962"><div><div class="xg_user_generated"><p>Actually Eric, a thread or perhaps even a whole Group for Chemistry (and the math that goes with it) is probably a really really good idea!</p>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<p>Making it right now!<br/> <br/> <cite>TCLynx said:</cite></p>
<blockquote cite="http://aquaponicscommunity.com/forum/topics/salt-needs-its-own-thread?commentId=4778851%3AComment%3A358962&xg_source=msg_com_forum#4778851Comment358962"><div><div class="xg_user_generated"><p>Actually Eric, a thread or perhaps even a whole Group for Chemistry (and the math that goes with it) is probably a really really good idea!</p>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote> Actually Eric, a thread or pe…tag:aquaponicgardening.ning.com,2012-07-05:4778851:Comment:3589622012-07-05T20:08:42.302ZTCLynxhttps://aquaponicgardening.ning.com/profile/TCLynx
<p>Actually Eric, a thread or perhaps even a whole Group for Chemistry (and the math that goes with it) is probably a really really good idea!</p>
<p>Actually Eric, a thread or perhaps even a whole Group for Chemistry (and the math that goes with it) is probably a really really good idea!</p> It's called dimensional analy…tag:aquaponicgardening.ning.com,2012-07-05:4778851:Comment:3591072012-07-05T19:06:50.478ZEric Warwickhttps://aquaponicgardening.ning.com/profile/EricWarwick
<p>It's called dimensional analysis. Basically, write down your units by putting one on the numerator and one on the denominator. So, 2 divided by 2 is one, correct? So, x divided by x is 1. Remember a fraction is just a number or variable (this may make some peoples eyes glaze over, but I hope you're still with me) <span style="text-decoration: underline;"><em><strong>divided</strong></em> </span> by another number or variable. So, a mole (mol) is a unit. A mole is also a variable. So, a mole…</p>
<p>It's called dimensional analysis. Basically, write down your units by putting one on the numerator and one on the denominator. So, 2 divided by 2 is one, correct? So, x divided by x is 1. Remember a fraction is just a number or variable (this may make some peoples eyes glaze over, but I hope you're still with me) <span style="text-decoration: underline;"><em><strong>divided</strong></em> </span> by another number or variable. So, a mole (mol) is a unit. A mole is also a variable. So, a mole divided by a mole is <strong>1</strong>, and since everything times 1=itself your units "cross out". This is so you can check your work. If you have two units that didn't divide by itself then your work is wrong. But if it's one unit, then in the language of chemistry, you've figured out what happens when you react what with what. This is how scientists can see what the mass of Carbon Dioxide is emitted from a smokestack. If you have anymore questions I'll make a special thread for this. </p>
<p><br/> <cite>Bob Campbell said:</cite></p>
<blockquote cite="http://aquaponicscommunity.com/forum/topics/salt-needs-its-own-thread?xg_source=msg_com_forum&id=4778851%3ATopic%3A861&page=3#4778851Comment359102"><div><div class="xg_user_generated"><p>@Eric - This looks like a useful way to figure out the weight of materials so I'd like to understand the math. But you lost me when you crossed out the numerator and denominators. I see the match for 1mol of Cl- but the rest does not make sense to me.</p>
<p>I tried to substitute KCL since you provided an answer and got a MM of 22.99 + 39.098 = 62.1 but that's as far as I get.</p>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote> @Eric - This looks like a use…tag:aquaponicgardening.ning.com,2012-07-05:4778851:Comment:3591022012-07-05T17:25:07.445ZBob Campbellhttps://aquaponicgardening.ning.com/profile/BobCampbell
<p>@Eric - This looks like a useful way to figure out the weight of materials so I'd like to understand the math. But you lost me when you crossed out the numerator and denominators. I see the match for 1mol of Cl- but the rest does not make sense to me.</p>
<p>I tried to substitute KCL since you provided an answer and got a MM of 22.99 + 39.098 = 62.1 but that's as far as I get.</p>
<p>@Eric - This looks like a useful way to figure out the weight of materials so I'd like to understand the math. But you lost me when you crossed out the numerator and denominators. I see the match for 1mol of Cl- but the rest does not make sense to me.</p>
<p>I tried to substitute KCL since you provided an answer and got a MM of 22.99 + 39.098 = 62.1 but that's as far as I get.</p> Dear God good man, I think yo…tag:aquaponicgardening.ning.com,2012-07-05:4778851:Comment:3587812012-07-05T12:30:06.388ZVlad Jovanovichttps://aquaponicgardening.ning.com/profile/VladJovanovic
<p>Dear God good man, I think you've gone too far!<img src="http://www.bkserv.net/images/Smile.gif"></img></p>
<p>As fun as counting atoms might be...I think that percentage of weight might be much less intimidating for folks. And still hopefully get you close enough for hand grenades and backyard AP....</p>
<p>See, TC already knows how much sodium chloride to add to add (by weight and/or then volume) to get her to 1ppt and if she knows (by weight) what percent of the sodium chloride in her 5 gallon bucket (yeah, a couple atoms might slip…</p>
<p>Dear God good man, I think you've gone too far!<img src="http://www.bkserv.net/images/Smile.gif"/></p>
<p>As fun as counting atoms might be...I think that percentage of weight might be much less intimidating for folks. And still hopefully get you close enough for hand grenades and backyard AP....</p>
<p>See, TC already knows how much sodium chloride to add to add (by weight and/or then volume) to get her to 1ppt and if she knows (by weight) what percent of the sodium chloride in her 5 gallon bucket (yeah, a couple atoms might slip by un accounted for with the bucket and bathroom scale method) is chloride, then she could roughly do the same (by weight) for potassium chloride, knowing what percent (again by weight) is chloride and what percent is potassium.</p>
<p>I know this would not fly in a Krebs cycle application or whatever...But hopefully percent by weight to ppm (or mg/L) should be 'doable' by most people...</p>
<p>Say you want to add some Mg to your system...</p>
<p>If you know that magnesium sulfate (MgSO4) in the form of Epsom salt (MgSO4-7H20) is roughly 10% Magnesium, (by weight) it would appear to make things pretty easy...</p>
<p>Knowing this, and knowing your target threshold amount (in mg/L or ppm or whatever you choose to call it) and knowing your total system water volume...it should be easy to calculate how much Epsom salt to use...Say, my particular teaspoon holds about 3 grams according to my gram scale. But you should measure yours...and you add one teaspoon (3 grams) of Epsom salt to 1 litre of water... only 10% of those 3 grams is actually Magnesium...So 300 miligrams of Magnesium. You can see where this is going, right...?</p> Vlad, the mass will be differ…tag:aquaponicgardening.ning.com,2012-07-05:4778851:Comment:3587492012-07-05T04:00:25.352ZEric Warwickhttps://aquaponicgardening.ning.com/profile/EricWarwick
<p>Vlad, the mass will be different for Cl- and Na+, but they are in a one to one ratio. What you would do is a little more complicated. You'd need to find the number of <em><strong><span style="text-decoration: underline;">atoms</span></strong>,</em> dunh, duhn, duhn<em>.* </em>A mole (not the fuzzy brown creature that eats our wonderful plants) is:</p>
<p></p>
<p>6.02X10^23 or 6.02E23 <em><span style="text-decoration: underline;"><strong>atoms</strong></span></em>. </p>
<p></p>
<p>So, since…</p>
<p>Vlad, the mass will be different for Cl- and Na+, but they are in a one to one ratio. What you would do is a little more complicated. You'd need to find the number of <em><strong><span style="text-decoration: underline;">atoms</span></strong>,</em> dunh, duhn, duhn<em>.* </em>A mole (not the fuzzy brown creature that eats our wonderful plants) is:</p>
<p></p>
<p>6.02X10^23 or 6.02E23 <em><span style="text-decoration: underline;"><strong>atoms</strong></span></em>. </p>
<p></p>
<p>So, since NaCl is a 1 to 1 (1:1) ratio you need to find only one element (or two if you need to check your work). </p>
<p>Here's how to set up the problem: <span style="text-decoration: underline;">1g of <strong>NaCl</strong></span> X <span style="text-decoration: underline;">1mol of <strong>NaCl</strong></span> X <span style="text-decoration: underline;"> 1mol of <strong>Cl-</strong> </span> X <span style="text-decoration: underline;">6.02E23 atoms</span> = atoms of <strong>Cl-</strong><u><br/></u></p>
<p> 1 58g of <strong>NaCl</strong> 2mol of <strong>NaCl</strong> 1mol of <strong>Cl-</strong></p>
<p><strong><br/></strong>(Substances are in bold; mol=mole; g=grams) </p>
<p>For those of you who this might be a horrible mess of math remember that if you write down your units you can do anything. Remember like units cross out if one unit is the numerator (on the top) and the other is a denominator (on the bottom). So, once you've neutralized your units you can cross them out, like this: </p>
<p> <span style="text-decoration: underline;">1<span style="text-decoration: line-through;">g of <strong>NaCl</strong></span></span> X <span style="text-decoration: underline;">1<span style="text-decoration: line-through;">mol of <strong>NaCl</strong> </span></span>X <span style="text-decoration: underline;"> 1<span style="text-decoration: line-through;">mol of <strong>Cl-</strong></span> </span> X <span style="text-decoration: underline;"> 6.02E23 atoms</span> = atoms of <strong>Cl</strong><strong>-</strong></p>
<p> 1 58<span style="text-decoration: line-through;">g of <strong>NaCl</strong> </span> 2<span style="text-decoration: line-through;">mol of <strong>NaCl</strong></span> 1<span style="text-decoration: line-through;">mol of <strong>Cl-</strong></span></p>
<p>See, it leaves you with atoms of Cl-!</p>
<p>What is left to do to calculate you ask? Well, multiply the top row, then divide by the bottom row after it was multiplied together. Or, <span style="text-decoration: underline;"> (1X1X1X6.02E23)</span> Or 6.02E23 divided by 116. There that's the number of atoms. </p>
<p> (1X58X2X1) </p>
<p>Then you'd translate that into the molar mass--then put it in mg/liter and that's ppm so ppt would be .0003mg/liter. </p>
<p>*Or, as I just realized, you'd convert molar mass to grams and do mg/liter. (I wrote out this whole explanation of chemistry math, so I figure I should just post it--you could go to the number of atoms to check your work as I said above.) <img src="http://www.bkserv.net/images/Grin.gif"/><img src="http://www.bkserv.net/images/Grin.gif"/><img src="http://www.bkserv.net/images/Grin.gif"/></p>
<p>Post Script: TCLynx I hope this helped rather than confuse you.</p>
<p>Vlad Jovanovic said:</p>
<blockquote cite="http://aquaponicscommunity.com/forum/topics/salt-needs-its-own-thread?id=4778851%3ATopic%3A861&page=2#4778851Comment358415"><div class="xg_user_generated"><p>Yeah if I lived by the Ocean, (or by some old salt flats) I'd sure use it...</p>
<p>Calculate the molecular mass (MM): <br/>MM = 22.99 + 35.45 = 58.44</p>
<p>Calculate the total mass of Na present: <br/>1 Na is present in the formula, mass = 22.99</p>
<p>Calculate the percent by weight of Na in NaCl: <br/><b>%Na</b> = (mass Na ÷ MM) x 100 = (22.99 ÷ 58.44) x 100 = <b>39.34%</b></p>
<p>Calculate the total mass of Cl present: <br/>1 Cl is present in the formula, mass = 35.45</p>
<p>Calculate the percent by weight of Cl in NaCl: <br/><b>%Cl</b> = (mass Cl ÷ MM) x 100 = (35.45 ÷ 58.44) x 100 = <b>60.66%</b></p>
<p><b><br/></b>You can use this crap for whatever compounds...you just have to know (look up) the atomic weights of those elements...</p>
<p><b><br/></b>So say, by weight salt (NaCl) is about 61% Cl...being hygroscopic, it may pick up some water weight, but I'm not about to go there...</p>
<p>For potassium chloride this would work out to be about 47% Cl...</p>
</div>
</blockquote> Hey smart people. Is there a…tag:aquaponicgardening.ning.com,2012-07-04:4778851:Comment:3585552012-07-04T18:16:45.755ZJon Parrhttps://aquaponicgardening.ning.com/profile/JonParr
Hey smart people. Is there a way to remove only the sodium from seawater?
Hey smart people. Is there a way to remove only the sodium from seawater? Hehe. Sounds like those Trans…tag:aquaponicgardening.ning.com,2012-07-04:4778851:Comment:3586222012-07-04T18:10:09.011ZJon Parrhttps://aquaponicgardening.ning.com/profile/JonParr
Hehe. Sounds like those Transylvanian women need chastity belts AND steel neck guards. :)
Hehe. Sounds like those Transylvanian women need chastity belts AND steel neck guards. :)