Raft vs. Media filled Grow Bed (Sustainability) - Aquaponic Gardening2024-03-29T09:58:15Zhttps://aquaponicgardening.ning.com/forum/topics/raft-vs-media-filled-grow-bed-sustainability?commentId=4778851%3AComment%3A337431&feed=yes&xn_auth=noWhat about a small, proof of…tag:aquaponicgardening.ning.com,2012-05-19:4778851:Comment:3374312012-05-19T01:31:44.475ZGeorgehttps://aquaponicgardening.ning.com/profile/Geoge
<p>What about a small, proof of concept, hybrid system? You could start with fish tank and media beds and then add from there once you are cycled up. I would think that you might possibly need a year or so to prove concept but maybe you can do it in less. My hat is off to you. I hope to be involved in such a project myself someday so I'll be following this closely. My system runs off solar but during overcast days I'm supplementing from the grid. What I'm thinking of trying next is…</p>
<p>What about a small, proof of concept, hybrid system? You could start with fish tank and media beds and then add from there once you are cycled up. I would think that you might possibly need a year or so to prove concept but maybe you can do it in less. My hat is off to you. I hope to be involved in such a project myself someday so I'll be following this closely. My system runs off solar but during overcast days I'm supplementing from the grid. What I'm thinking of trying next is running aeration from solar, 24/7 but pumping from tank to beds with grid power. Then, during power outages, I'll run entirely from solar, with a reduced pumping and feeding plan until grid power is restored. Good luck.<br/> <br/> <cite>James McCullough said:</cite></p>
<div><div class="xg_user_generated"><p> would you suggest that I try to convince him to start with a small media bed setup as a proof a concept and learning experience and then proceed to move to a hybrid setup? No matter what option we go with, we'll be recording a TON of data and I look forward to sharing the results<br/> <cite><br/></cite></p>
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</div> Glass marbles are going to be…tag:aquaponicgardening.ning.com,2012-05-19:4778851:Comment:3372632012-05-19T00:04:12.545ZTCLynxhttps://aquaponicgardening.ning.com/profile/TCLynx
<p>Glass marbles are going to be fairly heavy too and probably far more costly as well as being really smooth so they will provide less surface area for the bacteria but the biggest issue with marbles will be that they will let light down deeper into the grow beds and thus not be so good for roots or bacteria growth. Otherwise they could probably still be used.</p>
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<p>Now there is a light weight media made of recycled glass called growstones, looks a bit like lava rock.</p>
<p>Glass marbles are going to be fairly heavy too and probably far more costly as well as being really smooth so they will provide less surface area for the bacteria but the biggest issue with marbles will be that they will let light down deeper into the grow beds and thus not be so good for roots or bacteria growth. Otherwise they could probably still be used.</p>
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<p>Now there is a light weight media made of recycled glass called growstones, looks a bit like lava rock.</p> Quick qestion - albeit slight…tag:aquaponicgardening.ning.com,2012-05-18:4778851:Comment:3371242012-05-18T09:19:39.106ZRichard Josephhttps://aquaponicgardening.ning.com/profile/RichardJoseph
<p>Quick qestion - albeit slightly off topic...</p>
<p>Could one use glass marbles (partly or entirely) as a grow media or have I simply lost my marbles?? I ask because gravel is very heavy...</p>
<p>Quick qestion - albeit slightly off topic...</p>
<p>Could one use glass marbles (partly or entirely) as a grow media or have I simply lost my marbles?? I ask because gravel is very heavy...</p> You might also want to do som…tag:aquaponicgardening.ning.com,2012-03-09:4778851:Comment:3033942012-03-09T01:07:54.102ZTCLynxhttps://aquaponicgardening.ning.com/profile/TCLynx
<p>You might also want to do some research into how Growing power does things seeing as you note you have a huge supply of "green" waste for the project. Composting and worm bins would be a benefit to any food growing project even if it isn't directly connected to the aquaponics system.</p>
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<p>Now I don't really agree with some of Growing Power's advertizing or sound bites since they seem to lead the unwary into silly high stocking densities with sometimes tragic results, however, they…</p>
<p>You might also want to do some research into how Growing power does things seeing as you note you have a huge supply of "green" waste for the project. Composting and worm bins would be a benefit to any food growing project even if it isn't directly connected to the aquaponics system.</p>
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<p>Now I don't really agree with some of Growing Power's advertizing or sound bites since they seem to lead the unwary into silly high stocking densities with sometimes tragic results, however, they are a good example of a urban food production center helping neighborhoods.</p> Oh yeah, and since you are go…tag:aquaponicgardening.ning.com,2012-03-06:4778851:Comment:3024202012-03-06T00:29:48.589ZVlad Jovanovichttps://aquaponicgardening.ning.com/profile/VladJovanovic
<p>Oh yeah, and since you are going solar this may help you a bit with sizing the pipes/elbows/sweeps...in terms of energy loss due to friction blablabla...<a href="http://www.aquaticeco.com/pages/full_width/87/Friction-Loss-in-PVC-Plumbing">http://www.aquaticeco.com/pages/full_width/87/Friction-Loss-in-PVC-Plumbing</a></p>
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<p>Oh yeah, and since you are going solar this may help you a bit with sizing the pipes/elbows/sweeps...in terms of energy loss due to friction blablabla...<a href="http://www.aquaticeco.com/pages/full_width/87/Friction-Loss-in-PVC-Plumbing">http://www.aquaticeco.com/pages/full_width/87/Friction-Loss-in-PVC-Plumbing</a></p>
<p></p> I was meaning surface area, u…tag:aquaponicgardening.ning.com,2012-03-06:4778851:Comment:3024192012-03-06T00:25:37.681ZVlad Jovanovichttps://aquaponicgardening.ning.com/profile/VladJovanovic
<p>I was meaning surface area, using 12" deep (which seems to have evolved into some sort of quasi-standard) for both media beds and DWC rafts. Sorry should have been more clear on that...</p>
<p>But just to avoid further potential confusion, are you meaning the <em>total</em> volume of the bed, or the volume of <em>water</em> that the bed will actually hold after being filled with media?</p>
<p>Since Archimedes let us all know that once you fill the bed with rocks, we can expect it to only…</p>
<p>I was meaning surface area, using 12" deep (which seems to have evolved into some sort of quasi-standard) for both media beds and DWC rafts. Sorry should have been more clear on that...</p>
<p>But just to avoid further potential confusion, are you meaning the <em>total</em> volume of the bed, or the volume of <em>water</em> that the bed will actually hold after being filled with media?</p>
<p>Since Archimedes let us all know that once you fill the bed with rocks, we can expect it to only hold about 40% of its total capacity in water... We also need to account for the fact that it wont be filled to the brim with media, (so an inch or so comes off that dimension) and that the standpipe will keep the water line at least two inches below the surface of the media (so yet another couple of inches off). All this will "significantly" lower the actual volume of water that the bed will be holding...</p>
<p>This is why it's sometimes easier to use surface area, (of course knowing the depth would help too<img src="http://www.bkserv.net/images/Smile.gif"/></p>
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<p>Well, yes and no. I did plan on leaving a number of beds empty or possibly rotating which (6) get used and which (2) don't at any given time. Not so much for nutrients sake, as this past spring/summer I was able to run a small system using only nylon socks filled with worm castings (worked remarkably well to my surprise). So adding ready to use nitrates shouldn't really a problem... More for the solids issue. Though this may not be necessary at all, I'd rather play it on the safe side...monitor/observe, and go from there. Even if I were to plant all 8 beds, I would definitely plant 'relatively' lightly or do so in a way as to contain unruly root mass from interfering much with bio-filtration. Having a good, staggered production/harvesting schedule would help some too I imagine.</p>
<p>At worst I'll have to add that swirl filter to the mix, but will try my best for it not to come to that...</p>
<p>As far as the fish tank volume...I first work out how much bio-mass (fish) I'd need for the plants, then built the tank from there. Using about 7 gallons per pound. This gives me a little leeway.</p>
<p>Also my media beds are a bit deeper than the 'average' 12". My space was limited in the GH, so I went deeper to add more bio-filtration capacity within the same sq. footage of real-estate... </p>
<p>It's great that you are able to go solar in your situation, very cool.</p>
<p></p> @ Vlad Jovanovic : So when yo…tag:aquaponicgardening.ning.com,2012-03-05:4778851:Comment:3021842012-03-05T21:33:58.260ZJames McCulloughhttps://aquaponicgardening.ning.com/profile/JamesMcCullough
<p><cite>@ Vlad Jovanovic</cite> : So when you use 1:4 ratio of bed to raft what is your fish tank to bed volume? My guess is that you would keep that at roughly 1:2 to ensure proper solids management resulting in a total ratio of 1:2:8 (fish tank:media bed:DWC). Either way did you reduce the plant/sf density in your media area so as to provide the raft area with adequate nutrient concentrations?</p>
<p>P.S. Thanks to you and everyone else on here for being so helpful and amiable!!!…<br></br></p>
<p><cite>@ Vlad Jovanovic</cite> : So when you use 1:4 ratio of bed to raft what is your fish tank to bed volume? My guess is that you would keep that at roughly 1:2 to ensure proper solids management resulting in a total ratio of 1:2:8 (fish tank:media bed:DWC). Either way did you reduce the plant/sf density in your media area so as to provide the raft area with adequate nutrient concentrations?</p>
<p>P.S. Thanks to you and everyone else on here for being so helpful and amiable!!!<br/> <br/></p>
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<blockquote cite="http://aquaponicscommunity.com/forum/topics/raft-vs-media-filled-grow-bed-sustainability?commentId=4778851%3AComment%3A302062&xg_source=msg_com_forum#4778851Comment301765"><div><div class="xg_user_generated"></div>
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</blockquote> Definitely, when i get the si…tag:aquaponicgardening.ning.com,2012-03-05:4778851:Comment:3021832012-03-05T21:16:36.391ZJames McCulloughhttps://aquaponicgardening.ning.com/profile/JamesMcCullough
<p>Definitely, when i get the sizing down I'll pin down the piping design and pump sizing, from there I could share the theoretical energy requirements of the different design alternatives we're working on.<br></br> <br></br> <cite>steve said:</cite></p>
<blockquote cite="http://aquaponicscommunity.com/forum/topics/raft-vs-media-filled-grow-bed-sustainability?commentId=4778851%3AComment%3A302062&xg_source=msg_com_forum#4778851Comment302055"><div><div class="xg_user_generated"><p>I've heard the raft…</p>
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<p>Definitely, when i get the sizing down I'll pin down the piping design and pump sizing, from there I could share the theoretical energy requirements of the different design alternatives we're working on.<br/> <br/> <cite>steve said:</cite></p>
<blockquote cite="http://aquaponicscommunity.com/forum/topics/raft-vs-media-filled-grow-bed-sustainability?commentId=4778851%3AComment%3A302062&xg_source=msg_com_forum#4778851Comment302055"><div><div class="xg_user_generated"><p>I've heard the raft system can run with smaller pumps and water flow rates. Whereas grow beds with constant pumping seem to be heavy on electric costs. Maybe worth consideration?</p>
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</blockquote> Agreed on the cost side of th…tag:aquaponicgardening.ning.com,2012-03-05:4778851:Comment:3022972012-03-05T21:11:19.988ZJames McCulloughhttps://aquaponicgardening.ning.com/profile/JamesMcCullough
<p>Agreed on the cost side of things for most people, however we have access to the materials at a lower rate and we will be custom constructing the array and supports ourselves rather than buying from a commercial dealer. The start-up money is provided by a grant so the delay on the return on investment isn't a huge deal though we still want to be as efficient as possible. This was why I initially was looking at an E&F system, non-continuous pumping and aeration only on the fish side. With…</p>
<p>Agreed on the cost side of things for most people, however we have access to the materials at a lower rate and we will be custom constructing the array and supports ourselves rather than buying from a commercial dealer. The start-up money is provided by a grant so the delay on the return on investment isn't a huge deal though we still want to be as efficient as possible. This was why I initially was looking at an E&F system, non-continuous pumping and aeration only on the fish side. With progress in manufacturing and harnessing efficiency, a solar powered system could become a feasible reality for most people in the near-ish future, thus a working model at current efficiencies would not only meet <em>our</em> goal of a sustainable system but also potentially bolster efforts of others who want to make aquaponics as sustainable as possible. This system is supposed to be more of a demonstration that isn't a money pit rather than my own personal revenue generating system.<br/> <br/> <cite>RupertofOZ said:</cite>I'm trying to design a system that uses primarily solar power and collected rainwater while still being scaled to a small commercial size, so an effective E&F system would be ideal if possible</p>
<blockquote cite="http://aquaponicscommunity.com/forum/topics/raft-vs-media-filled-grow-bed-sustainability?commentId=4778851%3AComment%3A302062&xg_source=msg_com_forum#4778851Comment302062"><div><div class="xg_user_generated"><p>Trying to power an aquaponics system.. that requires continuous aeration, and/or pumping.... by solar... means that the costs of the solar capacity required basically doubles the cost of the system itself...</p>
<p>Commercially, frankly I think it's almost a contradiction... at least in terms of a 2-5 year ROI...</p>
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</blockquote> I'm trying to design a system…tag:aquaponicgardening.ning.com,2012-03-05:4778851:Comment:3020622012-03-05T09:15:51.837ZRupertofOZhttps://aquaponicgardening.ning.com/profile/RupertofOZ
<blockquote><p>I'm trying to design a system that uses primarily solar power and collected rainwater while still being scaled to a small commercial size, so an effective E&F system would be ideal if possible</p>
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<p>Trying to power an aquaponics system.. that requires continuous aeration, and/or pumping.... by solar... means that the costs of the solar capacity required basically doubles the cost of the system itself...</p>
<p> </p>
<p>Commercially, frankly I…</p>
<blockquote><p>I'm trying to design a system that uses primarily solar power and collected rainwater while still being scaled to a small commercial size, so an effective E&F system would be ideal if possible</p>
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<p>Trying to power an aquaponics system.. that requires continuous aeration, and/or pumping.... by solar... means that the costs of the solar capacity required basically doubles the cost of the system itself...</p>
<p> </p>
<p>Commercially, frankly I think it's almost a contradiction... at least in terms of a 2-5 year ROI...</p>