Polyvinyl chloride vs Polyethylene - Food Safety - Aquaponic Gardening2024-03-28T10:54:43Zhttps://aquaponicgardening.ning.com/forum/topics/polyvinyl-chloride-vs-polyethylene-food-safety?commentId=4778851%3AComment%3A311035&feed=yes&xn_auth=noHere is a blog post I wrote o…tag:aquaponicgardening.ning.com,2012-08-15:4778851:Comment:3829812012-08-15T00:35:57.441ZTCLynxhttps://aquaponicgardening.ning.com/profile/TCLynx
<p>Here is a blog post I wrote on the subject of plastics and aquaponics materials just the other day.</p>
<p><a href="http://www.aquaponiclynx.com/aquaponics-and-plastic-system-materials" target="_blank">Don’t let panic over plastic stop you from getting started.</a></p>
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<p>Here is a blog post I wrote on the subject of plastics and aquaponics materials just the other day.</p>
<p><a href="http://www.aquaponiclynx.com/aquaponics-and-plastic-system-materials" target="_blank">Don’t let panic over plastic stop you from getting started.</a></p>
<p></p> Jonathan, Sylvia asked the s…tag:aquaponicgardening.ning.com,2012-08-14:4778851:Comment:3831042012-08-14T18:32:32.479ZMichael Clegghttps://aquaponicgardening.ning.com/profile/MichaelClegg396
<p>Jonathan, Sylvia asked the same question, just yesterday. As a systems designer, I am asked am quite often, PVC or not to PVC, that is the question.</p>
<p>Does PVC pipe leach chemicals? Is it toxic? </p>
<p>Claims that it’s toxic have been refuted by the scientific community. The evidence shows it neither leaches toxic chemicals like lead, cadmium, BPA or plasticizers; release harmful organotins; pose major hazards in its manufacture, use and disposal; create a dangerous bio-film; nor…</p>
<p>Jonathan, Sylvia asked the same question, just yesterday. As a systems designer, I am asked am quite often, PVC or not to PVC, that is the question.</p>
<p>Does PVC pipe leach chemicals? Is it toxic? </p>
<p>Claims that it’s toxic have been refuted by the scientific community. The evidence shows it neither leaches toxic chemicals like lead, cadmium, BPA or plasticizers; release harmful organotins; pose major hazards in its manufacture, use and disposal; create a dangerous bio-film; nor form dioxins as water passes through, etc.</p>
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<p>Moreover, it’s impossible for PVC pipe to leach plasticizers, BPA, lead or cadmium, since these aren’t even used in its manufacture nor are they part of its compound. </p>
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<p><a href="http://www.charlottepipe.com" target="_blank">www.charlottepipe.com</a> This company produces a type of PVC pipe that is often advertised as rated “Drinking Water.” The following is further info. ASTM – D – 1785, Drinking Water, CP-112P Ext. #1 or 00:27 Schedule 80</p>
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<p>The possible answer might lie in the MSDS sheet. </p>
<p>The Hazard Ingredients/Identity Information</p>
<p>Less than 3.2 parts per million (ppm) of residual chloride monomer (rvcm)</p>
<p><strong>Standards for food contact applications</strong></p>
<p>In January 1978 Directive 78/142/EEC set a limit of 1 mg VCM/kg for all materials and articles that are intended to come into contact with foodstuffs. The same directive states that vinyl chloride should not be detectable in foodstuffs by a specified test method, which has a detection limit of 0.01 mg/kg (10 ppb).</p>
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<p>The typical upper limit for continuous use of PVC pipe is 140 F, but that is associated with working pressure. The Temp/Working Pressure can be confusing.</p>
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<p>While induustry standards suggests its use should be with cold water only, yet there are no references as to what temp is the threshold of cold water at low pressure. While PVC can handle temps as high as 180 F (82.2 C) at pressures up to 100 PSI. Some documents suggest temps no greater than 140 F (60.0 C) </p>
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<p>The best answer that I have ever received from people in the industry – 73 F (22.7 C), yet, I find this number to be possibly inaccurate, I feel comfortable with water that hovers in the mid-80's.</p>
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<p>There are other types, such as PPR-Aluminum-Plactic stabi pipe for drinking water, for hot-cold applications. Do date, I have no experience with it.. I have been advised that it remains quite expensive.</p>
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<p>The smooth surface of the PVC pipe is also resistant to bacterial contamination, such as E. coli. Therefore, many water companies rely on PVC pipe in their systems in order to keep them free of contamination. </p>
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<p>Since Tilapia best reside with 25-30 C (77-86 F), the use of PVC should be considered safe.</p>
<p>Any water temps above that, one might consider the use of a chiller to bring the temp down.</p>
<p>Let us remember that with higher temps, you will realize higher O₂ demands.</p>
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<p>I have never seen any issue made or addressed as the PVC within Howard M. Resh's work, Hydroponic Food Production, nothing negative within any of the literature of Dr. Timothy Fitzsimmons of the U of A, nor within the many publications of Dr. James Rakocy. </p> Yes, we made sure we had the…tag:aquaponicgardening.ning.com,2012-03-25:4778851:Comment:3110352012-03-25T17:10:07.562ZTodd Sowellhttps://aquaponicgardening.ning.com/profile/ToddSowell
<p>Yes, we made sure we had the correct resins</p>
<p>Yes, we made sure we had the correct resins</p> PET, while entirely re-cyclab…tag:aquaponicgardening.ning.com,2012-03-25:4778851:Comment:3107372012-03-25T11:38:33.479ZRupertofOZhttps://aquaponicgardening.ning.com/profile/RupertofOZ
<p>PET, while entirely re-cyclable which is a plus... isn't any where near as safe as HDPE...which is usually also UV stabilised...</p>
<p> </p>
<p>And Todd.... I hope you used the "good" resins in your fibreglass tank.... because resins aint resins... and some of them are "bad"...</p>
<p>PET, while entirely re-cyclable which is a plus... isn't any where near as safe as HDPE...which is usually also UV stabilised...</p>
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<p>And Todd.... I hope you used the "good" resins in your fibreglass tank.... because resins aint resins... and some of them are "bad"...</p> Actually if you look at the p…tag:aquaponicgardening.ning.com,2012-03-25:4778851:Comment:3107212012-03-25T05:32:06.622ZJonathan Kadish NYC AA Chairhttps://aquaponicgardening.ning.com/profile/JonathanKadish
<p>Actually if you look at the product he is talking about, triple-layer PolyLaminate<span id=""></span>™, the outside layers are PVC and the inside is a Polyester mesh. From the little I've read polyester is fairly stable.</p>
<p>Actually if you look at the product he is talking about, triple-layer PolyLaminate<span id=""></span>™, the outside layers are PVC and the inside is a Polyester mesh. From the little I've read polyester is fairly stable.</p> Actually there isn't much pro…tag:aquaponicgardening.ning.com,2012-03-25:4778851:Comment:3109032012-03-25T04:52:01.600ZCarey Mahttps://aquaponicgardening.ning.com/profile/CareyMa
<p>Actually there isn't much problems with using PVC in our systems unless they are exposed to direct sunlight ie a dashboard on a hot, sunny day, off gasses. The outside of a PVC pipe may powderize (degrade) due to UV exposure but the inside of the pipe should be ok as there is not enough temp (high and low) or UV to break it down.</p>
<p>On the other hand; even PE (the stuff drinking bottles are made of) leach chemicals over time. Even fiberglass resins breakdown over time with UV…</p>
<p>Actually there isn't much problems with using PVC in our systems unless they are exposed to direct sunlight ie a dashboard on a hot, sunny day, off gasses. The outside of a PVC pipe may powderize (degrade) due to UV exposure but the inside of the pipe should be ok as there is not enough temp (high and low) or UV to break it down.</p>
<p>On the other hand; even PE (the stuff drinking bottles are made of) leach chemicals over time. Even fiberglass resins breakdown over time with UV exposure, so we really don't have much choice. </p>
<p>I would say that natural (clay bottomed) ponds with PE lined metal pipes would be our best choice, unfortunately, there is no such product as PE lined pipes. It's not that we don't have the technology to produce laminated products. There simply hasn't been a demand till now. "Panda" sheets for hydroponics is a good example. Maybe if we collectively demand it from producers? Bamboo could be another eco conscious/ sustainable material for piping but....</p> I would have no idea and the…tag:aquaponicgardening.ning.com,2012-03-24:4778851:Comment:3106722012-03-24T23:24:58.866ZKenyon James Hopkinshttps://aquaponicgardening.ning.com/profile/KenyonJamesHopkins
<p>I would have no idea and the manufacture's website doesn't say. I just thought that a 650 gal "Tank" for $60 was much better than paying $500-1000 or more. I'm not a rich man so I have to skimp in places to make any of this worth doing.</p>
<p>I would have no idea and the manufacture's website doesn't say. I just thought that a 650 gal "Tank" for $60 was much better than paying $500-1000 or more. I'm not a rich man so I have to skimp in places to make any of this worth doing.</p> Kenyon,
That all depends…tag:aquaponicgardening.ning.com,2012-03-24:4778851:Comment:3103752012-03-24T22:29:44.439ZTCLynxhttps://aquaponicgardening.ning.com/profile/TCLynx
<p>Kenyon,</p>
<p> That all depends on how you feel about PVC and if the laminate layer in contact with the water has any of the chemicals that tend to leach or not.</p>
<p>Kenyon,</p>
<p> That all depends on how you feel about PVC and if the laminate layer in contact with the water has any of the chemicals that tend to leach or not.</p> So a triple-layer PolyLaminat…tag:aquaponicgardening.ning.com,2012-03-24:4778851:Comment:3103572012-03-24T19:06:37.163ZKenyon James Hopkinshttps://aquaponicgardening.ning.com/profile/KenyonJamesHopkins
<p>So a triple-layer PolyLaminate<span id=""></span>™ PVC composite material pool would not make a good tank for fish in an aquaponics system?</p>
<p>So a triple-layer PolyLaminate<span id=""></span>™ PVC composite material pool would not make a good tank for fish in an aquaponics system?</p> It does sound like an ambitio…tag:aquaponicgardening.ning.com,2011-10-21:4778851:Comment:2357232011-10-21T19:19:00.488ZMolly Stanekhttps://aquaponicgardening.ning.com/profile/MollyStanek
It does sound like an ambitious project - can't wait to see what comes of it! What kind of clay/glaze are you thinking of using?<br></br>
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<cite>Jonathan Kadish said:</cite><br />
<blockquote cite="http://aquaponicscommunity.com/forum/topics/polyvinyl-chloride-vs-polyethylene-food-safety#4778851Comment228221"><div><div class="xg_user_generated">I am a ceramicist as well and thinking of making my own clay tiles with epoxy grout for the grow beds to avoid the plastic all together where possible. I…</div>
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It does sound like an ambitious project - can't wait to see what comes of it! What kind of clay/glaze are you thinking of using?<br/>
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<cite>Jonathan Kadish said:</cite><br />
<blockquote cite="http://aquaponicscommunity.com/forum/topics/polyvinyl-chloride-vs-polyethylene-food-safety#4778851Comment228221"><div><div class="xg_user_generated">I am a ceramicist as well and thinking of making my own clay tiles with epoxy grout for the grow beds to avoid the plastic all together where possible. I did this in my shower and the grout is water tight. One of the reason i'm getting in to AP is to stop eating petroleum based food so the idea of growing in plastic is kinda off putting if you know what i mean.</div>
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