Please help me not throw in the towel! - Aquaponic Gardening2024-03-28T13:58:22Zhttps://aquaponicgardening.ning.com/forum/topics/please-help-me-not-throw-in-the-towel?commentId=4778851%3AComment%3A569272&feed=yes&xn_auth=noIf all this stuff hasn't work…tag:aquaponicgardening.ning.com,2014-07-14:4778851:Comment:5707472014-07-14T04:00:31.313ZHank Palocihttps://aquaponicgardening.ning.com/profile/HankPaloci
<p>If all this stuff hasn't worked (and it should but it's at times complicated), consider asking a member that's local to you for a media sample that you can mix into your GB to accelerate the process. Or, go to your local aquarium/fish store and ask. Pretty much anyone would say yes. Armed with a sample (a culture, I suppose), your system should light up.</p>
<p>If all this stuff hasn't worked (and it should but it's at times complicated), consider asking a member that's local to you for a media sample that you can mix into your GB to accelerate the process. Or, go to your local aquarium/fish store and ask. Pretty much anyone would say yes. Armed with a sample (a culture, I suppose), your system should light up.</p> Awesome! Glad to hear it. Goo…tag:aquaponicgardening.ning.com,2014-06-30:4778851:Comment:5690962014-06-30T14:51:33.015ZCasey Haashttps://aquaponicgardening.ning.com/profile/CaseyHaas
<p>Awesome! Glad to hear it. Good luck!!</p>
<p>Awesome! Glad to hear it. Good luck!!</p> Well, I made a trip to The Aq…tag:aquaponicgardening.ning.com,2014-06-30:4778851:Comment:5692722014-06-30T14:33:38.550ZSteve Ericksonhttps://aquaponicgardening.ning.com/profile/SteveErickson
<p>Well, I made a trip to The Aquaponic Source that was well worth my time. Samson confirmed a few things for me. He also helped me select potassium bicarbonate to help buffer my system from the PH drops it has suffered from. On top of that he let me grab a handful of media from one of the systems to introduce to mine. The very next day I measured the first Nitrites and Nitrates in my system. I planted both beds yesterday and am looking forward to measuring what happens over the next…</p>
<p>Well, I made a trip to The Aquaponic Source that was well worth my time. Samson confirmed a few things for me. He also helped me select potassium bicarbonate to help buffer my system from the PH drops it has suffered from. On top of that he let me grab a handful of media from one of the systems to introduce to mine. The very next day I measured the first Nitrites and Nitrates in my system. I planted both beds yesterday and am looking forward to measuring what happens over the next days/weeks. Thanks to all!</p>
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<p>Now today I just need to buy my tickets to the Aquaponics festival on August 9th and 10th. Looking forward to it. Hopefully by then I will have a fully cycled system running tilapia.</p> My new system just finished c…tag:aquaponicgardening.ning.com,2014-06-29:4778851:Comment:5692492014-06-29T21:33:56.134ZJonathan Kadish NYC AA Chairhttps://aquaponicgardening.ning.com/profile/JonathanKadish
<p>My new system just finished cycling and yours will follow soon! Look for a very light brown coating on the inside of your PVC pipes... that's the Nitrosomonas and Nitrobacter setting up shop.</p>
<p>My new system just finished cycling and yours will follow soon! Look for a very light brown coating on the inside of your PVC pipes... that's the Nitrosomonas and Nitrobacter setting up shop.</p> I have been able to raise my…tag:aquaponicgardening.ning.com,2014-06-27:4778851:Comment:5690302014-06-27T14:24:05.591ZSteve Ericksonhttps://aquaponicgardening.ning.com/profile/SteveErickson
<p>I have been able to raise my PH to about 7.6. I also did a partial water change as Casey suggested. I'm going to resume planting the system so that hopefully when cycling occurs my plants can help with the spikes. Tonight I will start logging all of the test results again. Thanks for all of the great information! You guys have got me excited to tackle these problems again. I guess that means I will be spending more money in the future on this project Casey! ;)</p>
<p>I have been able to raise my PH to about 7.6. I also did a partial water change as Casey suggested. I'm going to resume planting the system so that hopefully when cycling occurs my plants can help with the spikes. Tonight I will start logging all of the test results again. Thanks for all of the great information! You guys have got me excited to tackle these problems again. I guess that means I will be spending more money in the future on this project Casey! ;)</p> If your fish don't make it re…tag:aquaponicgardening.ning.com,2014-06-26:4778851:Comment:5688412014-06-26T02:52:22.572ZJeff Shttps://aquaponicgardening.ning.com/profile/JeffSullivan
<p>If your fish don't make it replace them with some cheap goldfish. They're durable and dispensable. Don't give up. Before you know it you'll be cycled and worrying about more plant space.</p>
<p>If your fish don't make it replace them with some cheap goldfish. They're durable and dispensable. Don't give up. Before you know it you'll be cycled and worrying about more plant space.</p> It does seem odd that your sy…tag:aquaponicgardening.ning.com,2014-06-25:4778851:Comment:5686652014-06-25T15:12:49.934ZCasey Haashttps://aquaponicgardening.ning.com/profile/CaseyHaas
<p>It does seem odd that your system hasn't cycled yet, especially at that temperature, but stranger things have happened.</p>
<p>Keeping the pH up is definitely worth a try although my pH started dropping after the first week of fishless cycling and my system cycled below pH 7 without any trouble (it was outdoors though...maybe it's harder to attract nitrifying bacteria in a basement?). Do you know someone in your area with a system that you could scrape some slime from? That might help get…</p>
<p>It does seem odd that your system hasn't cycled yet, especially at that temperature, but stranger things have happened.</p>
<p>Keeping the pH up is definitely worth a try although my pH started dropping after the first week of fishless cycling and my system cycled below pH 7 without any trouble (it was outdoors though...maybe it's harder to attract nitrifying bacteria in a basement?). Do you know someone in your area with a system that you could scrape some slime from? That might help get things going. Be aware that the shell grit won't keep your system above pH 7 (and in full production mode not even that) and is very slow acting because it only really dissolves below pH 7 and not at a fast enough rate to keep up with nitrification once it gets going. You would probably be better off using a combination of potassium carbonate and calcium carbonate to bring the pH up. Carbonates may also help with getting the cycle going as it seems the bacteria do need a minimum amount of carbonates to function (kH above 40). I have also had success with bringing the pH in my system up with partial water changes with de-chlorinated high pH/ high carbonate tap water (10% change), which also seems to refresh things in the system. I do this once or twice a week depending on the need.</p>
<p>Another idea is to add some potassium to the system. The bacteria need potassium for metabolism and I found that adding potassium really revs up my biofilter. The potassium level in tap water (at least mine anyway) does not appear to be sufficient. You can add this as potassium carbonate or potassium hydroxide (both of which will bring pH up) or as potassium sulfate (which will not affect your pH).</p>
<p>The fact that your ammonia level is at 6 ppm is scary for your fish. They may not make it. I would suggest salting your system to reduce stress and to prevent brown blood disease if they survive the ammonia spike only to get hit by the nitrite spike. I have no experience with crappie so I don't know how tolerant of salt they are. Maybe try aquarium salt at 3 parts per thousand and see how they handle that. You can increase the salt to 6 parts per thousand if the crappie are salt tolerant. You apparently need six times the amount of Cl- ions to outcompete every NO2- ion to prevent brown blood disease. Check out this article <a href="http://edis.ifas.ufl.edu/pdffiles/VM/VM00700.pdf" target="_blank">edis.ifas.ufl.edu/pdffiles/VM/VM00700.pdf</a>. You may not be able to achieve that level based on the salt tolerance level of your fish, but you can hopefully get close. I probably wouldn't feed them for a while in any case. Something else to consider....raising your pH too much will make your ammonia level toxic to your fish (if it isn't already). Check out any aquarium ammonia toxicity chart on the web to see how pH, temperature, and ammonia levels interact to be either "toxic" or "nontoxic" to your fish.</p>
<p>I have both Hydroton and Plant It in my system and have not had any problems with pH issues as a result. I think the nitrification process in just so carbonate intensive that even the very beginnings of the process result in pH decreases. I read somewhere that every one part of ammonia converted through the nitrogen cycle requires something like six parts carbonate (don't quote me on that though). I am just using it as an example to illustrate that the process can naturally drive down pH and quickly too! I saw this in my own system after week one of fishless cycling. It took six weeks to fully cycle my system.</p>
<p>You've got enough ammonia in your system and a good temperature, so just make sure you have enough carbonates and potassium to feed the bacteria and salt the system to hopefully save the fish. Partial water changes can help keep the ammonia and nitrate levels down to a manageable level and help keep the pH up. Just make sure to remove chlorines and chloramines first. (I have heard that if you get an ammonia reading on your tap water that you probably have chloramines but I'm not sure if that is the case or not....I am fortunate that my tap water doesn't have chloramines...yet)</p>
<p>Don't give up. If your case is anything like mine, this will be just the first of many frustrations associated with learning AP (it takes a while to get to the rewards, but they do come!). Just when you think you've got one thing figured out, you end up back in the books for some new problem. It isn't easy to get it right (despite what anybody tells you) and the only thing that has kept me going is annoyance that I have spent so much money on my system that I can't let it fail. ;) Of course this usually means spending more money to address each new problem which makes it sort of a vicious cycle, albeit one that keeps me motivated when I might otherwise throw in the towel. Now, after one year at it, I am expecting my first tomato soon...yay! So don't give up!</p>
<p>Good luck!</p> Ok I will work on getting the…tag:aquaponicgardening.ning.com,2014-06-25:4778851:Comment:5688242014-06-25T13:20:32.176ZSteve Ericksonhttps://aquaponicgardening.ning.com/profile/SteveErickson
<p>Ok I will work on getting the PH up. It is good to know about the PlantIt. Disappointing but definitely good to know that it can impact PH. </p>
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<p>I happen to have a bag of crushed Oyster Shells at home that I use for my quail. I looked up shell grit and it appears they are interchangable for this purposes. Now I'm off to grab a paint strainer bag. Again, thanks for everybody's help so far.</p>
<p>Ok I will work on getting the PH up. It is good to know about the PlantIt. Disappointing but definitely good to know that it can impact PH. </p>
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<p>I happen to have a bag of crushed Oyster Shells at home that I use for my quail. I looked up shell grit and it appears they are interchangable for this purposes. Now I'm off to grab a paint strainer bag. Again, thanks for everybody's help so far.</p> Alex Veidel said:
Any chanc…tag:aquaponicgardening.ning.com,2014-06-25:4778851:Comment:5688232014-06-25T13:15:31.500ZSteve Ericksonhttps://aquaponicgardening.ning.com/profile/SteveErickson
<p><br></br> <br></br> <cite>Alex Veidel said:</cite></p>
<blockquote cite="http://community.theaquaponicsource.com/forum/topics/please-help-me-not-throw-in-the-towel?commentId=4778851%3AComment%3A568807&xg_source=msg_com_forum#4778851Comment568813"><div class="xg_user_generated"><p>Any chance you might have chlorine or chloramines in your water? Municipal water supplies tend to have that kind of stuff in it. It's used as a disinfectant which basically kills all the bacteria you're trying to…</p>
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<p><br/> <br/> <cite>Alex Veidel said:</cite></p>
<blockquote cite="http://community.theaquaponicsource.com/forum/topics/please-help-me-not-throw-in-the-towel?commentId=4778851%3AComment%3A568807&xg_source=msg_com_forum#4778851Comment568813"><div class="xg_user_generated"><p>Any chance you might have chlorine or chloramines in your water? Municipal water supplies tend to have that kind of stuff in it. It's used as a disinfectant which basically kills all the bacteria you're trying to cultivate in your system. Chlorine will off-gass over a short period of time, but chloramines don't.</p>
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<p>I contacted the municipality that provides my water and they say that they don't treat our water with chloramines. Is there a test kit for chloramines?</p>
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<p>There was definitely chlorine out of the tap. Plenty of time has elapsed for it to have off gassed by now though.</p>
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</blockquote> Bacteria will take quite some…tag:aquaponicgardening.ning.com,2014-06-25:4778851:Comment:5686492014-06-25T02:35:47.551ZJonathan Kadish NYC AA Chairhttps://aquaponicgardening.ning.com/profile/JonathanKadish
<p>Bacteria will take quite some time to colonize if the PH is under 7 and there is not sufficient oxygenation of the media (flood and drain not running 24/7) Try to get the PH up to the 8 range when cycling which is what the bacteria like. Your plants may not like it but short term pain for the long term gain.</p>
<p>I have also used Plant It and read from another post that it may have sulfur that can leach from it which will send your PH down. My solution is to buy 4 pounds of shell grit off…</p>
<p>Bacteria will take quite some time to colonize if the PH is under 7 and there is not sufficient oxygenation of the media (flood and drain not running 24/7) Try to get the PH up to the 8 range when cycling which is what the bacteria like. Your plants may not like it but short term pain for the long term gain.</p>
<p>I have also used Plant It and read from another post that it may have sulfur that can leach from it which will send your PH down. My solution is to buy 4 pounds of shell grit off Ebay, go to Lowes and pick up a paint strainer bag to put the shell grit in and then place the grit where the water flows over it. This has slowed the rate of drop on new media, I then use calcium hydroxide and potassium bicarbonate daily to manage the ph in the 7.4 7.8 range. The good news is that the effect of the sulfur will lessen over time. Older plantit media I am using in another system does not drop as much as the new stuff.</p>