New to aquaponics - Aquaponic Gardening2024-03-28T08:54:14Zhttps://aquaponicgardening.ning.com/forum/topics/new-to-aquaponics-11?commentId=4778851%3AComment%3A561946&feed=yes&xn_auth=noThank You Jessica for your r…tag:aquaponicgardening.ning.com,2014-05-14:4778851:Comment:5627982014-05-14T11:15:24.304ZSteve Armeroshttps://aquaponicgardening.ning.com/profile/SteveArmeros
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<p>Thank You Jessica for your response. </p>
<p>The mistake I made was to put river rock on the bottom of the ICB Tote. After talking all the rock out, vacuuming the bottom, cleaning the filter and the holding tank, and refilling with clean well water, all the readings stabilized and after 3 days now all is well.</p>
<p>I believe I made 3 mistakes. River rock on the bottom, too many fish, and too much food. It's been a learning process and I am glad there were folks there to…</p>
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<p>Thank You Jessica for your response. </p>
<p>The mistake I made was to put river rock on the bottom of the ICB Tote. After talking all the rock out, vacuuming the bottom, cleaning the filter and the holding tank, and refilling with clean well water, all the readings stabilized and after 3 days now all is well.</p>
<p>I believe I made 3 mistakes. River rock on the bottom, too many fish, and too much food. It's been a learning process and I am glad there were folks there to help. </p>
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<p>Steve</p>
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<p><br/> <cite>jessica Greenhow said:</cite></p>
<blockquote cite="http://community.theaquaponicsource.com/forum/topics/new-to-aquaponics-11?commentId=4778851%3AComment%3A563215&xg_source=msg_com_forum#4778851Comment563215"><div><div class="xg_user_generated"><p>Hey Steve,</p>
<p>I am also a complete newbie to this kind of growing and went through the same thing you are right now, I was in a total panic that my fish would die from crazy high Nitrites. I kept doing water changes, little to no feeding and sure enough everything has leveled out and doing great now. Its been about 3 weeks now. My system is much smaller than yours by a factor of about 10, but I think if you just ride it out and keep up on the water changes it will clear up in no time. I did however notice you said you had cleaned out your filter. . . I would not recommend this as you would be washing away all your bacteria which you need to get the chemistry on track.</p>
<p>Good luck,</p>
<p>Jess</p>
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</blockquote> Hey Steve,
I am also a comple…tag:aquaponicgardening.ning.com,2014-05-14:4778851:Comment:5632152014-05-14T05:32:01.668ZJess Ghttps://aquaponicgardening.ning.com/profile/jessicaGreenhow
<p>Hey Steve,</p>
<p>I am also a complete newbie to this kind of growing and went through the same thing you are right now, I was in a total panic that my fish would die from crazy high Nitrites. I kept doing water changes, little to no feeding and sure enough everything has leveled out and doing great now. Its been about 3 weeks now. My system is much smaller than yours by a factor of about 10, but I think if you just ride it out and keep up on the water changes it will clear up in no time. I…</p>
<p>Hey Steve,</p>
<p>I am also a complete newbie to this kind of growing and went through the same thing you are right now, I was in a total panic that my fish would die from crazy high Nitrites. I kept doing water changes, little to no feeding and sure enough everything has leveled out and doing great now. Its been about 3 weeks now. My system is much smaller than yours by a factor of about 10, but I think if you just ride it out and keep up on the water changes it will clear up in no time. I did however notice you said you had cleaned out your filter. . . I would not recommend this as you would be washing away all your bacteria which you need to get the chemistry on track.</p>
<p>Good luck,</p>
<p>Jess</p>
<p> </p> Let me be more specific I did…tag:aquaponicgardening.ning.com,2014-05-12:4778851:Comment:5629292014-05-12T19:19:26.478ZSteve Rhttps://aquaponicgardening.ning.com/profile/steveraisner
<p>Let me be more specific I didn't mean using over the counter iodine i meant using something like Lugoes iodine or another aquarium diluted version. My understanding is that iodine helps with regeneration and overall health in invertebrates when properly dosed and so far in my experiences that has been the case. Thanks for all the kick ass info on anticaking agents. <br></br> <br></br> <cite>Vlad Jovanovic said:…</cite></p>
<p>Let me be more specific I didn't mean using over the counter iodine i meant using something like Lugoes iodine or another aquarium diluted version. My understanding is that iodine helps with regeneration and overall health in invertebrates when properly dosed and so far in my experiences that has been the case. Thanks for all the kick ass info on anticaking agents. <br/> <br/> <cite>Vlad Jovanovic said:</cite></p>
<blockquote cite="http://community.theaquaponicsource.com/forum/topics/new-to-aquaponics-11?commentId=4778851%3AComment%3A562099&xg_source=msg_com_forum#4778851Comment562179"><div><div class="xg_user_generated"><p>The important thing when salting to mitigate nitrite toxicity, is that you use a <em>chloride</em> salt, so something like Epsom salt (magnesium <em>sulfate</em>) isn't going to do a damn thing in that regard (though your plants may appreciate it, it will not and cannot help your fish pull through a nitrite spike).</p>
<p>Iodine seems like a bad idea in AP because we like our microbes and probably want to treat them well <img src="http://www.bkserv.net/images/Grin.gif"/>...and not do things that might harm or kill them...you know, like adding ant-microbial agents to our systems</p>
<p>As far as I know, there are 4 common anti-caking agents used in by salt producers. A couple of which (like MgCO3 or CaCO3) actually seem beneficial to an AP system</p>
<p><span>A few years back, I looked into this anti-caking agent thing (and wrote about it <em>somewhere</em> here), because it seemed like most folks here just say "don't use any salt that has anti-caking agents", without knowing why? or what those anti-caking agents are comprised of?... and that's probably the safest route to go...and requires the least information on the part of the AP system operator, but the truth is some anti caking agents are perfectly OK...beneficial even, while others may or may not be...</span></p>
<p><span>Some common potentially </span><strong>NOT</strong><span> OK anti caking agents are sodium ferrocyanide, and potassium ferrocyanide (these will often be listed as E535, or E536 respectively, and wont degrade into cyanide or hydrogen cyanide gas when consumed by humans( they are found in the salt on your kitchen table whether you are aware of that or not), but I'm guessing that since they have the words "cyanide" in them, folks just naturally want to avoid themin AP). I've purposely used salts containing potassium ferrocyanide in a small test system a few years back with no ill effects that I could discern...but folks need to make their own call on that front. But in reality, I cant see how you would ever break the molecular bond in any of the ferrocyanides (since it is a particularly strong one) to produce anything that would be toxic. </span></p>
<p><span>I'd be less inclined to use the iodine than any (commonly used) anti-caking agents found in salt...Just my two cents.</span></p>
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</blockquote> The reason why the nitrites d…tag:aquaponicgardening.ning.com,2014-05-10:4778851:Comment:5626272014-05-10T17:14:41.476ZJonathan Kadish NYC AA Chairhttps://aquaponicgardening.ning.com/profile/JonathanKadish
<p>The reason why the nitrites don't come down right away is that different bacteria eat ammonia than eat nitrites Nitrosomonas, which convert ammonia to nitrite reproduce about twice as fast as Nitrobacter, which covert nitrite to nitrate.…</p>
<p>The reason why the nitrites don't come down right away is that different bacteria eat ammonia than eat nitrites Nitrosomonas, which convert ammonia to nitrite reproduce about twice as fast as Nitrobacter, which covert nitrite to nitrate. <span style="color: #000000; font-family: Arial; font-size: medium; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; background-color: #ffffff; display: inline ! important; float: none;"><span class="Apple-converted-space"><br/></span></span><br/> <br/> <cite>Steve Armeros said:</cite></p>
<blockquote cite="http://community.theaquaponicsource.com/forum/topics/new-to-aquaponics-11?commentId=4778851%3AComment%3A562099&xg_source=msg_com_forum#4778851Comment562507"><div><div class="xg_user_generated"><p>Thanks Jeff. Reading all the posts, I went and put in some aquarium salt in the tank according to directions. Thought it would help with the high Nitrites. Stopped feeding. After all that I did the Nitrites are still 5ppm +. Readings are as follows.</p>
<p>Temp 82</p>
<p>PH 6.8</p>
<p>Amm .15</p>
<p>Nitrites 5+</p>
<p>NItrate 80</p>
<p>Guess I will do like you recommend and wait it out. Don't understand why the Nitrites wont come down and/or stabilize.</p>
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</blockquote> Thanks Jeff. Reading all the…tag:aquaponicgardening.ning.com,2014-05-10:4778851:Comment:5625072014-05-10T10:06:58.182ZSteve Armeroshttps://aquaponicgardening.ning.com/profile/SteveArmeros
<p>Thanks Jeff. Reading all the posts, I went and put in some aquarium salt in the tank according to directions. Thought it would help with the high Nitrites. Stopped feeding. After all that I did the Nitrites are still 5ppm +. Readings are as follows.</p>
<p>Temp 82</p>
<p>PH 6.8</p>
<p>Amm .15</p>
<p>Nitrites 5+</p>
<p>NItrate 80</p>
<p>Guess I will do like you recommend and wait it out. Don't understand why the Nitrites wont come down and/or stabilize.</p>
<p>Thanks Jeff. Reading all the posts, I went and put in some aquarium salt in the tank according to directions. Thought it would help with the high Nitrites. Stopped feeding. After all that I did the Nitrites are still 5ppm +. Readings are as follows.</p>
<p>Temp 82</p>
<p>PH 6.8</p>
<p>Amm .15</p>
<p>Nitrites 5+</p>
<p>NItrate 80</p>
<p>Guess I will do like you recommend and wait it out. Don't understand why the Nitrites wont come down and/or stabilize.</p> Steve, I'm no expert and I am…tag:aquaponicgardening.ning.com,2014-05-10:4778851:Comment:5620992014-05-10T01:24:37.980ZJeff Shttps://aquaponicgardening.ning.com/profile/JeffSullivan
<p>Steve, I'm no expert and I am a risk taker but so far I haven't lost any fish (real fish). The feeder gold fish are sacrificial anyway so I wouldn't worry too much at this point. I'd let it ride for a couple more weeks and see what happens. Just keep the feeding low to contain the ammonia but .25-.5 ammonia is good for cycling. I did loose feeders when I first started but it's no great loss.</p>
<p>Steve, I'm no expert and I am a risk taker but so far I haven't lost any fish (real fish). The feeder gold fish are sacrificial anyway so I wouldn't worry too much at this point. I'd let it ride for a couple more weeks and see what happens. Just keep the feeding low to contain the ammonia but .25-.5 ammonia is good for cycling. I did loose feeders when I first started but it's no great loss.</p> The important thing when salt…tag:aquaponicgardening.ning.com,2014-05-09:4778851:Comment:5621792014-05-09T16:34:40.551ZVlad Jovanovichttps://aquaponicgardening.ning.com/profile/VladJovanovic
<p>The important thing when salting to mitigate nitrite toxicity, is that you use a <em>chloride</em> salt, so something like Epsom salt (magnesium <em>sulfate</em>) isn't going to do a damn thing in that regard (though your plants may appreciate it, it will not and cannot help your fish pull through a nitrite spike).</p>
<p>Iodine seems like a bad idea in AP because we like our microbes and probably want to treat them well <img src="http://www.bkserv.net/images/Grin.gif"></img> ...and not do things that might harm or kill them...you know,…</p>
<p>The important thing when salting to mitigate nitrite toxicity, is that you use a <em>chloride</em> salt, so something like Epsom salt (magnesium <em>sulfate</em>) isn't going to do a damn thing in that regard (though your plants may appreciate it, it will not and cannot help your fish pull through a nitrite spike).</p>
<p>Iodine seems like a bad idea in AP because we like our microbes and probably want to treat them well <img src="http://www.bkserv.net/images/Grin.gif"/>...and not do things that might harm or kill them...you know, like adding ant-microbial agents to our systems</p>
<p>As far as I know, there are 4 common anti-caking agents used in by salt producers. A couple of which (like MgCO3 or CaCO3) actually seem beneficial to an AP system</p>
<p><span>A few years back, I looked into this anti-caking agent thing (and wrote about it <em>somewhere</em> here), because it seemed like most folks here just say "don't use any salt that has anti-caking agents", without knowing why? or what those anti-caking agents are comprised of?... and that's probably the safest route to go...and requires the least information on the part of the AP system operator, but the truth is some anti caking agents are perfectly OK...beneficial even, while others may or may not be...</span></p>
<p><span>Some common potentially </span><strong>NOT</strong><span> OK anti caking agents are sodium ferrocyanide, and potassium ferrocyanide (these will often be listed as E535, or E536 respectively, and wont degrade into cyanide or hydrogen cyanide gas when consumed by humans( they are found in the salt on your kitchen table whether you are aware of that or not), but I'm guessing that since they have the words "cyanide" in them, folks just naturally want to avoid themin AP). I've purposely used salts containing potassium ferrocyanide in a small test system a few years back with no ill effects that I could discern...but folks need to make their own call on that front. But in reality, I cant see how you would ever break the molecular bond in any of the ferrocyanides (since it is a particularly strong one) to produce anything that would be toxic. </span></p>
<p><span>I'd be less inclined to use the iodine than any (commonly used) anti-caking agents found in salt...Just my two cents.</span></p> I agree. I regularly dose iod…tag:aquaponicgardening.ning.com,2014-05-09:4778851:Comment:5620772014-05-09T15:56:40.995ZSteve Rhttps://aquaponicgardening.ning.com/profile/steveraisner
<p>I agree. I regularly dose iodine in my invert tanks for egg health. not much but i use iodine in my invert aquariums iv yet to use it in my AP systems but its on my list should i run into any issues with my shrimp in my AP system. I dont see why it would be bad in AP but my understanding of idioine is not as good as others on here. I use it in my aquariums when i do a water change on an invert tank or if i see there fertility is declining and its not due to a KH issue.…</p>
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<p>I agree. I regularly dose iodine in my invert tanks for egg health. not much but i use iodine in my invert aquariums iv yet to use it in my AP systems but its on my list should i run into any issues with my shrimp in my AP system. I dont see why it would be bad in AP but my understanding of idioine is not as good as others on here. I use it in my aquariums when i do a water change on an invert tank or if i see there fertility is declining and its not due to a KH issue.</p>
<p><br/> <cite>Scott Roberts said:</cite></p>
<blockquote cite="http://community.theaquaponicsource.com/forum/topics/new-to-aquaponics-11?xg_source=msg_com_forum&id=4778851%3ATopic%3A561879&page=2#4778851Comment562147"><div><div class="xg_user_generated"><p>I ran across a paper where they looked at the "can't use iodized salt" as a nitrite remedy. Their conclusion was "no significant differences" in mortality and that it was safe to use iodized salt - at 4ppm continuous dose, or 25ppm dip.</p>
<div class="page" title="Page 1"><div class="layoutArea"><div class="column"><p><span>DOI: 10.1080/10454438.2011.626968 </span></p>
<div class="page" title="Page 1"><div class="layoutArea"><div class="column"><p><span>Use of Iodized Versus Non-iodized Sodium Chloride in Therapeutic Dips and Baths for Freshwater Fish</span></p>
<p><span>ALEXA J. M</span><span>C</span><span>DERMOTT and B. DENISE PETTY </span></p>
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<p><br/> <cite>Ryan Garlington said:</cite></p>
<blockquote cite="http://community.theaquaponicsource.com/forum/topics/new-to-aquaponics-11#4778851Comment562122"><div><div class="xg_user_generated"><p>No No- NOT epsom salt. Aquarium Salt is like salt we eat, but has no anti-caking additives or iodide added. This is the exact product I used: <br/> <a rel="nofollow" href="http://www.petco.com/product/1697/API-Aquarium-Salt.aspx" target="_blank">http://www.petco.com/product/1697/API-Aquarium-Salt.aspx</a></p>
<p><br/> <cite>Steve R said:</cite></p>
<blockquote cite="http://community.theaquaponicsource.com/forum/topics/new-to-aquaponics-11?commentId=4778851%3AComment%3A561698#4778851Comment562109"><div><div class="xg_user_generated"><p>anything above 2 for nitrites is potentially lethal to fish. like jonathan said do a big water change. Ryan by aquarium, salt do you mean epsom salt? what kind of salt?</p>
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</blockquote> you need to test yout GH and…tag:aquaponicgardening.ning.com,2014-05-09:4778851:Comment:5621782014-05-09T15:52:41.296ZSteve Rhttps://aquaponicgardening.ning.com/profile/steveraisner
<p>you need to test yout GH and calcium to figure out your magnesium in fresh water. This is the tables i use for figuring that out what are you using? i forget where i found this its in a notepad file i have.</p>
<p><span>You need to know your GH and Ca to know your Mg levels. The last part of this note speaks of the hard water areas. </span><br></br><br></br><span>CALCULATING Ca and Mg from GH</span><br></br><br></br><span>In order to find magnesium hardness, you must take a hardness reading with a GH…</span></p>
<p>you need to test yout GH and calcium to figure out your magnesium in fresh water. This is the tables i use for figuring that out what are you using? i forget where i found this its in a notepad file i have.</p>
<p><span>You need to know your GH and Ca to know your Mg levels. The last part of this note speaks of the hard water areas. </span><br/><br/><span>CALCULATING Ca and Mg from GH</span><br/><br/><span>In order to find magnesium hardness, you must take a hardness reading with a GH test.</span><br/><br/><span>Lamotte's calcium test is a GH test with an inhibiting agent that prevents magnesium from affecting the test. There's no way you can find the magnesium level by using the calcium test alone.</span><br/><br/><span>The calcium reading of the calcium test is in a CaCO3 equivalence. CaCO3 is 40.04320% calcium. So if the kit reads 75 ppm as CaCO3, </span><br/><span>then 75 * .4004320 = 30.0324 ppm actual calcium.</span><br/><br/><span>For magnesium, take your GH reading minus your calcium reading. For example, if your GH reading is 100 ppm as CaCO3, then 100 - 75 = 25 ppm magnesium as CaCO3. If you want to express this as actual magnesium, multiply by .2428391. So 25 * .2428391 = 6.0709775 ppm actual magnesium.</span><br/><br/><span>(In case you're interested, the .2428391 comes from the assumption that calcium and magnesium react equally on the GH test. Calcium weighs 40.078 grams per mole; magnesium weighs 24.305 grams per mole. Therefore, calcium weighs 1.64896 times more than magnesium (40.078 / 24.305). Take your 40.04320% calcium in calcium carbonate, and divide by 1.64896 = 24.28391%)</span><br/> <br/> <cite>Alex Veidel said:</cite></p>
<blockquote cite="http://community.theaquaponicsource.com/forum/topics/new-to-aquaponics-11?xg_source=msg_com_forum&id=4778851%3ATopic%3A561879&page=2#4778851Comment562261"><div><div class="xg_user_generated"><p>If you're using epsom salt in your system water, you want to go for 15-30ppm magnesium. Epsom salt is about 9.9% magnesium. If your fishtank is 150 gallons, I'm assuming you have about equal grow bed volume, so let's go for 300 gallons of water in your system (?). If you're showing deficiencies, 6oz in 300 gallons will get you about 15ppm. For a foliar spray, dissolve 1 tbsp of epsom salt in a gallon of water.</p>
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</blockquote> Thanks you guys. I get home f…tag:aquaponicgardening.ning.com,2014-05-09:4778851:Comment:5622712014-05-09T15:03:39.468ZJack Dunbarhttps://aquaponicgardening.ning.com/profile/JackDunbar
<p>Thanks you guys. I get home from work around midnight and I start looking for all the new posts and I start reading. I learn something every night</p>
<p>Thanks you guys. I get home from work around midnight and I start looking for all the new posts and I start reading. I learn something every night</p>