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Need help with Sprouting shelfs what siphon or valve to use.

I am building a greenhouse that will have a bio-filter simalar to Growing Powers troughs.  The top trough will be slopped and then a rain gutter will collect the nutrients and go to a wall using a drain pipe. The top trough is about 6 feet off the ground and so I would like to have a set of either 4 or 6 shelves against a back wall. 

 

I want to use gravity to get the top shelf of my 4 or 6 shelf set up flooded about 1 or 2 times a day. I will be growing seedlings and other smaller starter plants in the shelves with 10x20 trays.I would like the top shelf to flood for 15 minutes and then drain tothe next lowest shelf and have that flood for 15 minutes and then go on down the shelfs untill all shelfs are flooded and then the nutrients return to the FT.

 

The shelfs will have about an inch of standing nutrients in them so the roots will allways be in the water. I just want to flood the media once or twice a day to keep it moist.

 

Does anyone have an idea on what I would use to control this using siphons or valves or timers.

 

I could also have the nutrients that come from the bio-filter go to a holding tank, on the ground, and then use a pump that can pump up to the top shelf if that is any better to do. 

 

I have never done any ebb and flow and wanted all the experts to give me their opinion on this.

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You may need to tell me a bit more about exactly how you plan to filter the water for the fish.  Growing power generally has two troughs getting constant flow of water to filter for a tank of the same foot print and quite frankly with their stocking density and method, I have no idea how they manage not to kill fish big time.

 

There is no way you can run anything approaching a heavy stocking density while only flowing the water twice a day!  I realize this might not be quite what you have in mind but it is the first fear that pops into my mind at reading your post.

 

Anyway, fish need the water flow and filtration round the clock.  I've got lots of beds that get flooded once or twice an hour 24 hours a day.  The plants are happy with that.

 

If what you are describing is really just an off shoot of a more expansive system for just sprouting trays or seeds, Let me know, I have some options that would actually work far more simply than trying to control flooding trays twice a day (most inexpensive automated valves won't work on gravity pressure and the valves that can work on gravity pressure are usually quite complex, expensive, big and probably not appropriate to what you are trying to do.  (exception would be Rob T. servo motor controlled tiny indexing valve but I don't know if he is selling such things, it is something he built for himself.)

 

Anyway, more details of the entire system would probably help us to help you better.

 

Oh, at the bottom there you mention pumping up from a holding tank after a bio-filter.  If you use a strong enough pump, I have an indexing valve that could flood trays or beds in sequence.  Again, I kinda think it is overkill if all you are doing is using those shelves for sprouting.  Again if that is the case contact me and I can show you a method that would be constant trickle (avoid all extra pumps/timers/valves/siphons) and work very well to keep seed trays or pellets or most any other method properly moist without washing anything away.



TCLynx said:

You may need to tell me a bit more about exactly how you plan to filter the water for the fish.  Growing power generally has two troughs getting constant flow of water to filter for a tank of the same foot print and quite frankly with their stocking density and method, I have no idea how they manage not to kill fish big time

 

I was going with 2 troughs but decided not to. My tank is in the ground like Growing Powers.  It is 4x8x5 deep.  I have the upper trough but decided to make the second trough below like Olomana Gardens Bio-Filter with Lava rock in it and it will be 16" high with a bell siphon in 2 sections. The fish tank will have a pump that will bring nutrients to the top trough and will drain into the rain gutter then into a drain pipe.  That drain pipe will have 2 T's in it.  Then below the T's will be ball valve so I can control the flow.  The 2 T's will be above the 2 sections of the larger bio-filter and the bell siphons will work with one going right back to the FT and the other siphon going out to the rafts. 

 

I will have 24 hour filtration and will not have that fish stocking density. Yes I am describing just an expansion system from the 2 t's to go my my sprouting trays either by gravity or to the lower tank and then back to my shelfs.  I would be glad to find out more on your options for flooding those sprouting trays 2 times a day if needed. I will have sprouting trays , micro greens and grass for horses on the trays or shelfs.

 

After the 2 T's I will let the nutrients go to my sprouting shelves.

instead of trying to flood the shelves for the sprouting trays then.  Make the shelves such that you can run rain gutters next to them with a constant flow through them which could then drain to the other bed or back to the fish tank.  The shelves would have liner  and then lay capillary matting on the shelves so the edge of it hangs down into the rain gutter to stay wet.  Then all you need do is place your seed trays on the capillary matting to keep it nicely moist.  This I expect will be far simpler and more cost effective as well as consistently better than trying to flood and drain for seed trays.

 

I've used this method with peat pellets and the little batting type hydroponic media as well as setting my cups with wicks on the matting to start the seeds in my cups for the NFT pipe.

 

I've also done something similar where I have placed a sheet of foam in my raft bed but instead of cutting holes in it for cups, I placed wicking fabric (capillary matting) on top so the edges hung into the water and then I placed my shoot or seed trays on that.  I've done like 18 trays of greens that way so far.  This way I also avoid worrying too much about how the media I use in the trays will affect the system provided the trays won't get battered by rain.  Since they are only wicking up the moisture they need rather than flooding and draining there is less risk of them affecting the system chemistry from leaching anything into the system while things like peat or coir will tend to break down and leach when being introduced into the recirculating flow of the system.

Of the 2 ways which way do you prefer?

The shelves are in the greenhouse so I will not have rain.

It sounds like the second method would be easier.  If I follow you then I would make the shelves 22" deep so I can put the trays in length front to back. The shelves would be level and the sides of the shelfs would be about 4" high so the 1-1/2" foam would be on the bottom of the shelf and the trays would still be inside the shelfs on top the Foam.

 

Then you said to use capillary matting, where is a good source for this?

 

The shelfs would get my nutrients from my drain via gravity and flow into my first top shelf. I would use a drain or stand pipe maybe 1/4" from the bottom of the shelfs so I could always have some nutrients on the bottom of the shelfs. I would have the standpipe empty to the next shelf and do the same thing. Then continue this to the bottom shelf where I would empty it into the FT.

 

Am I following you on this?  Sounds great.

 

If doing this on shelves, I would skip the foam as it is just an added cost and takes up space.  Run some of that rain guttering along side each shelf and simply let the water flow from one level to the next in the rain guttering and the shelf would simply have a layer of liner and the matting on it with the tray sitting on the matting.  no need to make the shelves deep either.  The gutter running along side each shelf will constantly have some water flowing through it for the wicking mat to suck up and keep the trays moist.

 

I can sell matting in smaller quantities or go to growers supply if you want a 100 foot roll of it.

 

The video has a glimpse of some of my seed starting on a shelf with the capillary matting.  The part with the seed shelf is at about 7minutes and 30 seconds into the video

The video is before I plumbed in the recirculating water through the trough but that is really easy with a little bit of PVC and some uniseals.  I have since also added some liner and matting to the upper shelf and a tray at the end of the shelf for water to feed that shelf as well and the water flows from the top tray down to the rain gutter feeding the bottom shelf.

Thanks TCLynx for the video.  I am thinking that is the best way to do it.  I was wondering if anyone knows if using a product from Home Depot for my gutters will be okay to use or not.

 

It is called triple wall drain 4" and it has a stamp of HDPE on it.  It is white on the outside and black on the inside.  It come with a connector on one end and comes in 10' lengths.  Before I start cutting these in 1/2 to make gutters I wanted to know if the are fish safe or not?

 

Anyone that knows please let me know.  Thanks

I don't know.

 

I would just simply use the rain gutters since you can get the end pieces to seal them and the brackets to attach them to the sides of the shelves ready made.  Then again, rain gutters are not rated food safe but I've been using them no problems as are other people I know of.

 

I don't know anything about triple wall drain?

The reason I was getting the triple wall is because they are so cheap at $7.00 for a 10' length. I can cut them in 1/2 and get 2 times the value out of each pipe and then use a 90 degree elbow to connect them to the next gutter with a 4" down spout and not have to use end caps and hangers to install them on the shelfs and rain gutters are a lot more than 7.00 for a 10' length.

 

Ya might want to double check those assumptions.  I believe the stuff I got was around $6 per 10' (I believe I got them at lowes) length and the cost of hangers and end caps are probably less than the cost of 4" plumbing fittings.  I used uniseals and smaller PVC to connect my gutters together and to the rest of the plumbing.  But whatever works for you. 

Joe Bifano said:

The reason I was getting the triple wall is because they are so cheap at $7.00 for a 10' length. I can cut them in 1/2 and get 2 times the value out of each pipe and then use a 90 degree elbow to connect them to the next gutter with a 4" down spout and not have to use end caps and hangers to install them on the shelfs and rain gutters are a lot more than 7.00 for a 10' length.

 

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