medicinal plants anyluck? - Aquaponic Gardening2024-03-29T15:26:49Zhttps://aquaponicgardening.ning.com/forum/topics/medicinal-plants-anyluck?commentId=4778851%3AComment%3A282851&feed=yes&xn_auth=noI could only wish for snow. T…tag:aquaponicgardening.ning.com,2012-01-25:4778851:Comment:2832772012-01-25T12:06:02.116ZCarey Mahttps://aquaponicgardening.ning.com/profile/CareyMa
<p>I could only wish for snow. To me, snow is free water come spring. Right now, my soil is about ready to split........</p>
<p>As for the seeds. NO rush. We still have a few weeks. I'll e-mail you my address.</p>
<p>I'll try to post a lil something on aeroponics through my blog but basically the practice so far has been to push water at high pressure and low velocity through a spray head. Higher tech models might have some sort of disrupter. The most sophisticated of which use ultrasonic.…</p>
<p>I could only wish for snow. To me, snow is free water come spring. Right now, my soil is about ready to split........</p>
<p>As for the seeds. NO rush. We still have a few weeks. I'll e-mail you my address.</p>
<p>I'll try to post a lil something on aeroponics through my blog but basically the practice so far has been to push water at high pressure and low velocity through a spray head. Higher tech models might have some sort of disrupter. The most sophisticated of which use ultrasonic. These are used in labs today to grow truly medical quality plants, with potato being a crop of choice. The problem with this system is that it requires a lot of energy to push water and that process usually generates a lot of heat at the wrong place as well as the high cost of repair/ replacement and maintenance (salting up). </p>
<p>The Israelis developed a spinning atomizer as well as the Chinese with their little fog makers, but these had to be maintained constantly. Any micro electrical leakage and corrosion and salt buildup became a constant problem/ battle. Remember, this was back in the days of hydroponics and reactive agents. Concoctions that were unstable at best. We don't have that problem (so far) in aquaponics so...aeroponic systems of any type are more feasible using aquaponics nutes.</p>
<p>My proposed system which was originally actuated by....anyway. Remember the movie the God Father. Remember when the old man dies? What killed him? That's right! A low tech mist! Pushing air is a lot more efficient than pushing water. In other words a venturi. Now float that on the surface and we have a verticle mist. These particles should be small enough, (sufficient) to grow but not exactly ideal. A mist of five microns is thought to be ideal. This can be achieved by bouncing it off tefflon coated and insulated sonic disrupters, to be whisked off by air current into grow chambers, where root-hairs take in their organic bounty. </p> @Carey.
I'm not sure what you…tag:aquaponicgardening.ning.com,2012-01-25:4778851:Comment:2831952012-01-25T08:57:45.094ZVlad Jovanovichttps://aquaponicgardening.ning.com/profile/VladJovanovic
<p>@Carey.</p>
<p>I'm not sure what you have in mind but I'd be happy to share/work with you. You seem to do things in really <em>big</em> ways, and well, the things I do are pretty laughable in scale.</p>
<p>My 'serious' project is to finish getting the 2131 sq.foot greenhouse outfitted with the AP hybrid system. But again, if I can help you out somehow I would be honored to.</p>
<p>BTW...how do I go about getting those seeds to you exactly? You can message me instructions. We are…</p>
<p>@Carey.</p>
<p>I'm not sure what you have in mind but I'd be happy to share/work with you. You seem to do things in really <em>big</em> ways, and well, the things I do are pretty laughable in scale.</p>
<p>My 'serious' project is to finish getting the 2131 sq.foot greenhouse outfitted with the AP hybrid system. But again, if I can help you out somehow I would be honored to.</p>
<p>BTW...how do I go about getting those seeds to you exactly? You can message me instructions. We are <em>ridiculously</em> snowed in at the moment and the post is in town. (getting cabin fever already)...</p>
<p></p> Sorry, Jon I forgot to answer…tag:aquaponicgardening.ning.com,2012-01-25:4778851:Comment:2834112012-01-25T08:35:05.066ZVlad Jovanovichttps://aquaponicgardening.ning.com/profile/VladJovanovic
<p>Sorry, Jon I forgot to answer you question as to nutes...on the PL-Lighting discussion page the peppers in the hydroton only net pots get a (relatively) classic blend of mineral salts and TE's along with some 'organic' N inputs...The ones pictured in the coir/perlite/vermiculite/zeolite/castings deal get a half-baked 'organic' recipe that I came up with while experimenting with a third very small, very disposable system (two basil plants, one pepper and the ever present salad).</p>
<p>On the…</p>
<p>Sorry, Jon I forgot to answer you question as to nutes...on the PL-Lighting discussion page the peppers in the hydroton only net pots get a (relatively) classic blend of mineral salts and TE's along with some 'organic' N inputs...The ones pictured in the coir/perlite/vermiculite/zeolite/castings deal get a half-baked 'organic' recipe that I came up with while experimenting with a third very small, very disposable system (two basil plants, one pepper and the ever present salad).</p>
<p>On the N side of things...I noticed that when I started adding some nitrite (hummonia based) to my otherwise pure nitrate blend (brewed worm castings seem to be <em>all</em> nitrates) my pH in the reservoir seemed to be freaky stable for long periods of time...I also used this method to grow out those salads and spinach pictured in that same PL-L discussion. Not a single water change, not a single pH adjustment (actually that's not entirely true since every time I top up with my nutes I am in actuality automatically adjusting pH as a secondary effect). P also comes from my hummonia and the castings/tea. Wood ashes also seem to be 2%-8% P (dry weight) and between 5%-14% K (dry weight). Calcium carbonate (or rather its aqueous bicarbonate form) I have -o- plenty in my water. When I do my one and only initial pH adjustment at the beginning, I treat my water with a 16-18% HCL solution which will give off CO2, but more importantly the plant usable form of calcium (Ca2+). So I don't add finely ground eggshells anymore. Mg is also in the water, but Epsom salts could be used. Sulfer is an easy one...TE's from Kelpak (MaxiCrop). I thought about using 10-20 grams of rusty nail filings for every 50 litres of nute solution, but opted out as I have a perfectly good box of EDDHA Fe...<br/> That's pretty much it...just sorta wingin' it touchy feely intuitive. Which at the moment suits me. The hydroton only trough is a <em>slightly</em> more clinical affair...(but not by much)</p>
<p>NO3 and NO4 in a 1:2 ratio</p>
<p>P2O5</p>
<p>K2O</p>
<p>MgO</p>
<p>S</p>
<p>B</p>
<p>CU</p>
<p>Fe</p>
<p>Mn</p>
<p>Zn</p>
<p>In a blend all depending on how I'm feeling that day, and what I think would be a wise combo for a number of reasons at any given stage of plant development...</p>
<p>I start off with very low EC value (not counting what's already in my tap water) and slowly build up as my plants age/grow. Chili's, unlike Bell peppers don't need a whole lot, so this makes things a bit easier with them. With the dual root zone deal, I really cant take meaningful EC values, so it's sort of a mojo/voodoo thing. Working great so far. I did everything I could while they were seedlings/sprouts (...the usual stuff...24 hour fans to make them do the hula-workout, 24 hour light no 'sleepy time', no coffee breaks)... to keep them, super stocky, short, nice tight inter-nodal growth, stalks are like shrubs already. PL-L worked great... I'm not saying that it's <em>because</em> of the dual root zone set up, but there is a definite visual difference in those plants. Sorry I'm rambling now...</p>
<p></p>
<p><br/> <cite>Jon Parr said:</cite></p>
<blockquote cite="http://aquaponicscommunity.com/forum/topics/medicinal-plants-anyluck?id=4778851%3ATopic%3A281981&page=2#4778851Comment282865"><div><div class="xg_user_generated">Fascinating, Vlad. I saw mention of dual root zone in another post of yours, but didn't have time to ask what you meant. I'd love to pick your brain on your homemade nutes. Salt based or organic blend? I have been considering using CRF's, as in controlled release fertilizer. They are granular pellets designed to be mixed into compost or top-dressed on soil. Each time you water, some ferts dissolve into surrounding soil, like licking a lollipop. I've considered adding some pellets to the media, but I'm chicken. I don't have any fish that I don't mind losing. But this dual root zone thing may be the trick. You could add some CRF's to the coco blend you use, and place the bottom of the net-pot right at the water line of a flood and drain media bed. Each time water touches the coco, capillary attraction would keep it wet, and I doubt any coco water would leach downward. Top roots would feed in coco and bloom nutes, bottom roots would feed in AP water and nitrates. Hmmmm. Plus, the watering would be part of the AP automation, meaning you can go on vacation without worrying about top feeding. The CRF's are very cheap, last 3 months, and you could always add a sprinkle to select plants that need something without treating your whole system. I just bought some CRF's with extra iron and micros. I like it. Could probably even grow potatoes and such this way.</div>
</div>
</blockquote> @ Jon: I don't think wicking…tag:aquaponicgardening.ning.com,2012-01-25:4778851:Comment:2830922012-01-25T04:58:54.199ZCarey Mahttps://aquaponicgardening.ning.com/profile/CareyMa
<p>@ Jon: I don't think wicking alone will be moist enough to dissolve controlled release type frets, esp close to the surface. The coir should hold it in place as long as the water level is not high enough to float them off. Personally I like Vlad's approach a bit better. At least there should be less chance of reactions.</p>
<p>A one inch air layer is most important in any wicking bed system. A balance of both air and water are necessary for good root growth. Too much water and a lack of air…</p>
<p>@ Jon: I don't think wicking alone will be moist enough to dissolve controlled release type frets, esp close to the surface. The coir should hold it in place as long as the water level is not high enough to float them off. Personally I like Vlad's approach a bit better. At least there should be less chance of reactions.</p>
<p>A one inch air layer is most important in any wicking bed system. A balance of both air and water are necessary for good root growth. Too much water and a lack of air are good conditions for root-rot. Too much air and too little water produce air pruned roots with woody tips which can also lead to termination. Remember, capillary action only travels about 300mm or one foot vertically from the water surface, so as your reservoir empties, tap roots need to travel so much further to reach water. It is good to keep the reservoir topped up in spring, until tap-roots mature enough to reach the lowest point in the reservoir. An appropriate material should be used to give even water distribution. I originally use geotextile or landscape fabric ( a non woven synthetic) but am trying to develop a natural woven wick that makes the system truly organic. The best combination so far is verticle cornstalks with diagonal weaves of barley and wheat. * Trade secret: Wrap the bottom part of wick with plastic.</p>
<p>Because I have access to rolls of geotextile, I have different sized ("Smart pots" type) bags made to experiment with. I use 80% perlite and 20% compost, with fish water and wick bed overflow water to grow all sorts of crops especially root crops like potato. Bag culture works great! The nice thing with perlite is that once you have done it a few times, you can pretty much judge how much water to "load up" before it naturally flushes. I find I get much better performance with deep watering every few days than light sprinkles every day or to load it daily.</p>
<p>@ Vlad: I have several people interested in working with me on an aeroponics system but to date, none have manned up and actually start. I would be honored to work with you on this if you are serious about it. This project has been on my back burners for over a decade. I think it's time to bring it to light.</p> Awesome Vlad. 'Reminds me of…tag:aquaponicgardening.ning.com,2012-01-24:4778851:Comment:2829672012-01-24T20:08:43.019ZEllen Roelofshttps://aquaponicgardening.ning.com/profile/EllenRoelofs
<p>Awesome Vlad. 'Reminds me of what little I know about Growing Power, but raft style.</p>
<p>Awesome Vlad. 'Reminds me of what little I know about Growing Power, but raft style.</p> No, not that I could tell. T…tag:aquaponicgardening.ning.com,2012-01-24:4778851:Comment:2828902012-01-24T19:48:45.562ZNate Storeyhttps://aquaponicgardening.ning.com/profile/NateStorey
<p>No, not that I could tell. They ate some of the pellets but it didn't seem to bother them. : )</p>
<p>No, not that I could tell. They ate some of the pellets but it didn't seem to bother them. : )</p> No, nothing that fancy. Smart…tag:aquaponicgardening.ning.com,2012-01-24:4778851:Comment:2828892012-01-24T19:47:11.232ZJon Parrhttps://aquaponicgardening.ning.com/profile/JonParr
No, nothing that fancy. Smart Pot just a brand name of felt-like fabric grow bags. Better than hard containers because they allow gas transfer on all sides, stay cool in the sun, cannot overwater, and roots go right thru, of course air-pruning on the sides, so no root-bound issues. I mentioned them because they would physically contain media better than a net pot, and tend to be squat and stable, especially one roots anchor in the media below. I re-read your post describing dual root zone,…
No, nothing that fancy. Smart Pot just a brand name of felt-like fabric grow bags. Better than hard containers because they allow gas transfer on all sides, stay cool in the sun, cannot overwater, and roots go right thru, of course air-pruning on the sides, so no root-bound issues. I mentioned them because they would physically contain media better than a net pot, and tend to be squat and stable, especially one roots anchor in the media below. I re-read your post describing dual root zone, somehow missed the part of hydroton and rockwool. I had already been thinking about using CRF's, and my mind skipped right to a full bag of coco and or compost setting right on my gravel beds. So anyway, an experiment of that fashion is already started in my grow, we'll see.<br />
<br />
Nate, when your CFR's got loose in your fish tank, were the fish adversely affected? Jon...In one of the two set-u…tag:aquaponicgardening.ning.com,2012-01-24:4778851:Comment:2828862012-01-24T19:19:50.238ZVlad Jovanovichttps://aquaponicgardening.ning.com/profile/VladJovanovic
<p>Jon...In one of the two set-ups there is an 'air layer' of relatively high humidity (kind of like the updated Gericke system) and the water line should never be higher than your rockwool 'barrier' (lower even, it seems to wick pretty well). If you have some fine screen material, you could line the net pot to further help keep "contaminants" from getting out. I've avoided CRF's and opted for using Zeolite (though in an AP this may or may not be 'worse' than CRF's I have no idea, mine is a…</p>
<p>Jon...In one of the two set-ups there is an 'air layer' of relatively high humidity (kind of like the updated Gericke system) and the water line should never be higher than your rockwool 'barrier' (lower even, it seems to wick pretty well). If you have some fine screen material, you could line the net pot to further help keep "contaminants" from getting out. I've avoided CRF's and opted for using Zeolite (though in an AP this may or may not be 'worse' than CRF's I have no idea, mine is a really fine granular affair...powder realy and I doubt even the screen mesh would keep it out?) Zeolite, it is believed, should act as a 'magnet' for certain ionic elements, thereby holding them there for plant ready accessibility. That's the idea anyway. And besides, it's ("natrual-ness" was more appealing than CRF's...yeah I know, mining the Earth is not really "natrual" but still)...I'd like to get a couple tons for the garden/fields...Even if it dents your compost/fertilizer needs by 25% for the next 10 years (like some studies would indicate) it would be worth the little investment many times over..? And your elemental input potion would still be up to you, in terms of what/how (organic/mineral/chemical) you were to supply the land...Which is a plus over some CRF's...</p>
<p>Particularly like Cary says in terms of metals. Though a nitrogen sequestering substance probably poses it's own set of problems in an AP system...IDK</p>
<p>Are 'smart-pots' the same (in principal at least) as Jim Fah's auto-pots? ...sub irrigation with float valve i.e 'smart-valve'? I'm guessing that it's not because of the tyvek/fabric/wicking, but heck yeah, I'd probably build one (at least :) if you show me how...At the moment the whole NASA Star-Treky atmosphere of aeroponics has me intrigued. Simple enough with classic hydoponics, though not so much with organic hydro and I'm guessing AP. And I'd really like it to be an AP aeroponic set-up...but with <em>fine </em>mist (well relatively)...I 'think' I may have something worked out that should put an end to clogging issues of these spray misters without the need for fine micron filtration...Wont <em>really</em> know til I get some damn fish though and put it through the wringer...</p> Exactly, Nate. And osmocote i…tag:aquaponicgardening.ning.com,2012-01-24:4778851:Comment:2829532012-01-24T17:32:32.323ZJon Parrhttps://aquaponicgardening.ning.com/profile/JonParr
Exactly, Nate. And osmocote is the Maker of most CRF's no matter which brand you purchase. I just now mixed some in a smart pot of coco and compost, and placed it on the media at the water line. I don't see how the pellets could migrate through coco and a smart pot, so I don't see a repeat of your scenario, and thanks for the heads up there. I was actually going to add some to the media yesterday but got lazy. Lucky there.<br />
<br />
I only suggested the CRF's because I'm nervous about top watering…
Exactly, Nate. And osmocote is the Maker of most CRF's no matter which brand you purchase. I just now mixed some in a smart pot of coco and compost, and placed it on the media at the water line. I don't see how the pellets could migrate through coco and a smart pot, so I don't see a repeat of your scenario, and thanks for the heads up there. I was actually going to add some to the media yesterday but got lazy. Lucky there.<br />
<br />
I only suggested the CRF's because I'm nervous about top watering making it's way into the system, and I'm lazy, don't want to add another routine to the garden, or another system to monitor.<br />
<br />
Carey, since you've got some experience in the wicking combo here, am I safe to assume that the CRF's would stay put in the coco using only wicking and no top water?<br />
<br />
Vlad, is there an air space between your water level and the bottom if your net pots? I'll have to look at your pictures. This whole concept is pretty big, and new to me, thanks. If you don't have smart pots there in Serbia, you can make your own with tyvek, or line a net pot with fabric. I had an outdoor plant in a smart-pot sitting on the soil last year that anchored massive roots into the ground. It performed better than potted plants or soil plants, best of both worlds. Yes Vlad, I too am interested…tag:aquaponicgardening.ning.com,2012-01-24:4778851:Comment:2826992012-01-24T16:13:39.653ZCarey Mahttps://aquaponicgardening.ning.com/profile/CareyMa
<p>Yes Vlad, I too am interested in how things turn out for you. I do a similar thing with my wick bed system in that I top water only so the top layer of compost/ mulch gets moist enough to breakdown further. </p>
<p>*Beware of sulfur and metals like copper in your time release nutes.</p>
<p>Yes Vlad, I too am interested in how things turn out for you. I do a similar thing with my wick bed system in that I top water only so the top layer of compost/ mulch gets moist enough to breakdown further. </p>
<p>*Beware of sulfur and metals like copper in your time release nutes.</p>