Leaf Curl Problem

[Jim Enterline]

I am having leaves curl and I do not think that they should to the extent they are. Cucumbers just curl up and die. The tomatoes and kale seem to be affected drastically. The system cycled and has about 28 goldfish and tilapia about 2" long.

My levels are:
pH   7.8
Ammonia   .25
Nitrite   0
Nitrate   40-80  (Can't tell the color difference)
Temp  75 + -

Dwarf tomatoes

Bush Beans

Lacinato Kale - but might be normal for it?

Brussels

Maybe it's just me or is it normal? Also I have added some seaweed and fish emulsion.

Here is a link to what the set up looks like if it might help:
http://community.theaquaponicsource.com/forum/topics/a-hello-and-a-...

Thanks for any evaluation!

[George]

Probably potassium deficiency and I don't know if/how you can add it without raising PH.  Your PH is high already.  In year 2, my tomatoes look much better.  Nowadays, I adjust PH up with calcium hydroxide and potassium hydroxide.  

Your system is probably too new for tomatoes - setting and ripening fruit will be difficult.  Lacinato is a good crop if you like it, a long producer.  Try basil.

Is your media PH neutral?

[Jim Enterline]

Thanks George, I thought the tomatoes should have already been been blooming but they are not, that is probably why. I did the vinegar test on the gravel media after I could not get the pH down, and it was OK.

I'll just go with leafies for now and wait it out till it comes down.

Thanks for the advice!

George said:

Probably potassium deficiency and I don't know if/how you can add it without raising PH.  Your PH is high already.  In year 2, my tomatoes look much better.  Nowadays, I adjust PH up with calcium hydroxide and potassium hydroxide.  

Your system is probably too new for tomatoes - setting and ripening fruit will be difficult.  Lacinato is a good crop if you like it, a long producer.  Try basil.

Is your media PH neutral?

[Alex Veidel]

Hmm, don't know if this is solely the problem, but just thought I'd point out that your pH is a little high. Shoot for 6.8-7.0. Goofy pH causes nutrient lockout for a lot of plants.

Tehehe :) Can't tell the difference between 40ppm and 80ppm? Totally know what that's like. Never heard someone actually admit to it :D I guarantee you that the majority of people on aquaponics forums just pick one or the other to cover it up. I've done it. No worries, it'll come to you; I'm just starting to get the hang of it. The difference is orange (if you're using API Freshwater Test Kit) The less nitrates you have, the more orange is in your test vial.

[Jim Enterline]

Thanks Alex,

I'll look for the color difference.

The pH has been giving me fits. I started with county water without testing it and it was 7.8 and then went up from there. My rainwater is 7.5. The only water I can find with low pH is the condensation out of the air conditioner and it is about 5, I have been starting to catch it and I have been thinking about changing it out slowly and take the chance. I tried pH down but it only worked for about a day and then came back up.

Alex Veidel said:

Hmm, don't know if this is solely the problem, but just thought I'd point out that your pH is a little high. Shoot for 6.8-7.0. Goofy pH causes nutrient lockout for a lot of plants.

Tehehe Can't tell the difference between 40ppm and 80ppm? Totally know what that's like. Never heard someone actually admit to it I guarantee you that the majority of people on aquaponics forums just pick one or the other to cover it up. I've done it. No worries, it'll come to you; I'm just starting to get the hang of it. The difference is orange (if you're using API Freshwater Test Kit) The less nitrates you have, the more orange is in your test vial.

[John Cubit]

Just my 2 cents.  I had the same problem with a dirt grow bed and with my ap system, specifically with Tomatoes and Hot Peppers (all varieties I grow)  What I have found was that the plants are suffering a calcium deficiency.  Adding to soil was easy, just bought some Vigoro vegetable feed with Calcium and within a week the new leaves were all growing normal.  Older leaves stay curled.

For the AP it was a bit tougher and the end result was I took one cup of ground egg shells, and one cup ground beef bone (no meat or marrow) mixed it with 2 cups of  dried compost from my red worms.  Brewed up some compost tea and added it (according to bed bed size) 1 gallon of tank water.  Added it to the grow bed.  Curl stopped and the flowers are now setting, fruit is starting to emerge.  I do not know the exact measurements to use with your set up (for the tea) but I typically use 1 cup of tea to 1 gallon of tank water for a 30 gallons of tank water.  I also only add the tea monthly.  Check the forums on other tips for compost tea and how much to use.  So now I add more egg shells and ground beef bone to my worm beds and I believe that with tea and adding worms to the bed you should have that all under control in a few weeks.  And no it did not change my pH.

[Jim Enterline]

Thanks John, I will have to check the tea application forums.

John Cubit said:

Just my 2 cents.  I had the same problem with a dirt grow bed and with my ap system, specifically with Tomatoes and Hot Peppers (all varieties I grow)  What I have found was that the plants are suffering a calcium deficiency.  Adding to soil was easy, just bought some Vigoro vegetable feed with Calcium and within a week the new leaves were all growing normal.  Older leaves stay curled.

For the AP it was a bit tougher and the end result was I took one cup of ground egg shells, and one cup ground beef bone (no meat or marrow) mixed it with 2 cups of  dried compost from my red worms.  Brewed up some compost tea and added it (according to bed bed size) 1 gallon of tank water.  Added it to the grow bed.  Curl stopped and the flowers are now setting, fruit is starting to emerge.  I do not know the exact measurements to use with your set up (for the tea) but I typically use 1 cup of tea to 1 gallon of tank water for a 30 gallons of tank water.  I also only add the tea monthly.  Check the forums on other tips for compost tea and how much to use.  So now I add more egg shells and ground beef bone to my worm beds and I believe that with tea and adding worms to the bed you should have that all under control in a few weeks.  And no it did not change my pH.

[Jon Paul]

A little advise on mesuring nitrate.  The biggist collar change for the API Nitrate Test kit occurs in the 20ppm-40ppm rainge.  If you belive that your PPM is between 40-80 you will need to make several deluted samples.  For 40-80 rainge you will need to cut your sample in 1/2 to 1/4.  For 1/2 you take one part sample water and one part city water.  For 1/4 you take 1 part sample water and 3 parts city water.  For a sespected 40-80 range I would make a 1/2 a 1/3 and a 1/4 and maybee a 1/1.5 and a 1/5.   I like to test 5 tubes at a time and in doing so I can get withen about pluss or minus %10.  PS right now my system is running at the nuber below but im still working hard on what numbers to run at and i have no idea what to run at...  

N-85-95

P-25

K-80

C-110

M-30

Silica-30

Iron-2.5 

Im still working on dialing in my nutrents and having many problems.   For Pottasium dont bother with test kits.  Buy the 

HORIBA LAQUAtwin 3200456566 Model B-731 Compact Potassium Ion Meter.  This is a costly meater but you will be happy that you bought it  Yor will need to calibrate this meater about every 3rd use and $10 of calibration solution should last you 3-9 months.  For Calceum and Magnesium i would buy the Hanna Instruments HI96752 Calcium and Magnesium Portable Photometer with Sample Cuvettes, 7-19/32" Length x 4-3/32" Width x 2-11/16" Height, 1mg/L (ppm) Resolution, 9V Battery.  This meater Is also pricy but you can't beet it with a test kit for testing magnesium.