Indoor (basement) DWC Aquaponics System Version 0.2 - Aquaponic Gardening2024-03-28T11:03:19Zhttps://aquaponicgardening.ning.com/forum/topics/indoor-basement-dwc-aquaponics-system-introduction?commentId=4778851%3AComment%3A276859&x=1&feed=yes&xn_auth=nothanks everybody for the anse…tag:aquaponicgardening.ning.com,2012-01-12:4778851:Comment:2768592012-01-12T18:04:34.402ZGabriele Baroccihttps://aquaponicgardening.ning.com/profile/GabrieleBarocci
<p>thanks everybody for the ansewers,</p>
<p>i spent last week looking for the right growlight in a 4X8 growbed,</p>
<p>and i got scared!</p>
<p>So i'll start with a mini mini micro DWC system 1,5ft X 3.8 growbed system, try to grow something wit that under t12 light, and the if it works... i'll start the "big" system...</p>
<p></p>
<p>thanks again guys</p>
<p></p>
<p>Gabriele </p>
<p></p>
<p>thanks everybody for the ansewers,</p>
<p>i spent last week looking for the right growlight in a 4X8 growbed,</p>
<p>and i got scared!</p>
<p>So i'll start with a mini mini micro DWC system 1,5ft X 3.8 growbed system, try to grow something wit that under t12 light, and the if it works... i'll start the "big" system...</p>
<p></p>
<p>thanks again guys</p>
<p></p>
<p>Gabriele </p>
<p></p> http://twaquaponics.blogspot.…tag:aquaponicgardening.ning.com,2012-01-11:4778851:Comment:2763482012-01-11T01:33:23.231ZSeven Honghttps://aquaponicgardening.ning.com/profile/SevenHong
<p><a href="http://twaquaponics.blogspot.com/search/label/Taiwan%20AP%20Story" target="_blank">http://twaquaponics.blogspot.com/search/label/Taiwan%20AP%20Story</a></p>
<p></p>
<p>Try to enjoy those aquaponics examples.</p>
<p></p>
<p><a href="http://twaquaponics.blogspot.com/search/label/Taiwan%20AP%20Story" target="_blank">http://twaquaponics.blogspot.com/search/label/Taiwan%20AP%20Story</a></p>
<p></p>
<p>Try to enjoy those aquaponics examples.</p>
<p></p> It is possible to do a media…tag:aquaponicgardening.ning.com,2012-01-06:4778851:Comment:2737132012-01-06T07:55:59.465ZJonathan Kadish NYC AA Chairhttps://aquaponicgardening.ning.com/profile/JonathanKadish
<p>It is possible to do a media grow bed that is constant flood with air stones at regular intervals, I have seen this at Nelson & Pade. The benefit is eliminating the siphon and using less energy to pump if your fish tank and grow bed are adjacent to each other so that they achieve a similar water level. Pumping air takes less energy than pumping water.</p>
<p>Also, since this is going to be in a basement and you haven't built it yet make sure you account for the 4 foot expanse of your…</p>
<p>It is possible to do a media grow bed that is constant flood with air stones at regular intervals, I have seen this at Nelson & Pade. The benefit is eliminating the siphon and using less energy to pump if your fish tank and grow bed are adjacent to each other so that they achieve a similar water level. Pumping air takes less energy than pumping water.</p>
<p>Also, since this is going to be in a basement and you haven't built it yet make sure you account for the 4 foot expanse of your growbed to manage your plants. At that width it really has to be accessed from every side so don't put it against the wall.</p>
<p></p>
<p></p> Hi Dino,
First off I feel lik…tag:aquaponicgardening.ning.com,2012-01-06:4778851:Comment:2735992012-01-06T04:22:02.054ZVlad Jovanovichttps://aquaponicgardening.ning.com/profile/VladJovanovic
<p>Hi Dino,</p>
<p>First off I feel like I have to say that as far as 'practical experience with aquaponics' I'm probably not your best bet. There are A LOT of other folks on this site who fit that bill than way more than I...</p>
<p><strong><em>Would it serve as a good purpose to have a sump for the event of expansion of grow beds, or any probe/sensor additions you made add in the future (assuming you have the space for expansion) and can simply utilize the sump as your "main junction…</em></strong></p>
<p>Hi Dino,</p>
<p>First off I feel like I have to say that as far as 'practical experience with aquaponics' I'm probably not your best bet. There are A LOT of other folks on this site who fit that bill than way more than I...</p>
<p><strong><em>Would it serve as a good purpose to have a sump for the event of expansion of grow beds, or any probe/sensor additions you made add in the future (assuming you have the space for expansion) and can simply utilize the sump as your "main junction point"?</em></strong></p>
<p>Yes it is my belief that a sump would serve you well should you wish to expand to more media beds. Or pump out to other "add-ons" (like NFT) that need pre-filtered water. The 2,240 liter sump that I've set in the ground is comprised of two 1,120 liter tanks connected by a two inch fitting at the bottom (so they basically act as one tank). In part, they are 'separated' so that all sensors, probes, air stones, splashing oxygen adding water devivices, net filters, bio-balls, fines trapping mechanisms whatever...can go in 'one' tank, while the other half houses just the sump and float valve in a calm environment. So, yes personally I think it's good to have a sump for a number of reasons (depending on your wants/needs).</p>
<p><em><strong>I dont know much about SLO, but from what I've gathered it "sucks" up water from the bottom "up" and brings it over to the next area. in this case the media bed. Is this the most effective way to remove all the "detritus" from the fish tank and bring it over to the media bed? I've got afew aquariums and find that the bottom of the tank always ends up with fish waste and I end up siphoning it out manually.</strong></em></p>
<p><b><i><br/></i></b>As I have 8 (slightly deeper that the average 12 inches) IBC totes set up as media beds, so I have 8 "areas" that I need to get the water to. (Initially I plan to only plant in 4 of them and use the other 4 as dedicated mineralization sites). I did not want to mess with the logistics of a SLO set up feeding a gravity modified indexing valve, (i chickened out and decided to use a repeat cycle timer, pump and 'regular' low-flow' indexing valve) and will be counting on copious amounts of air to churn up my solids (ala Friendly's) and the pump to suck the solids up and send them off to be worm food (as well as an occasional good old fashion swish from a scrub brush on a stick when needed :) I have no idea if a SLO set-up is the "most effective way" to remove all the gunk that builds up at the bottom of a tank, or if it too needs an occasional helping hand from the scrub brush. It would probably depend on a number of factors...Maybe some folks who have such a SLO set-ups could chime in with their experiences...</p>
<p><em><strong>When you say constant, continual flow of water - are you referring to the friendly type system? Is it practical to have a friendly type system, (with continuous flow of water through DWC) with the addition of a large media bed with worms using a flood and drain?</strong></em></p>
<p><b><i><br/></i></b>Yep, I'm referring to a Friendly type system as they have it set-up (at least in their manual and drawings...I'm not lucky enough to have toured their farm). My system is one of those that people seem to be calling a "hybrid" system. (thankfully there are more of them out their than what I thought a year ago). It's 548 square feet of Friendlies style rafts with 96 square feet of media bed pre-filtering (keep in mind they're a bit deeper, so there is a bit more surface area than "usual")...It is my belief that these "hybrid" systems will be the future of small commercial/large family aquaponics. Gina Cavaliero from Green Acre Organics, who is much more eloquent than I could ever be, wrote about this topic a few days/weeks ago and basically said what has been rolling around un-stated half-coherently in my (and I'm sure others) head. Might be an interesting read for you. As I understand it Green Acre Organics was a Friendly's affiliate until recently,</p>
<p>and are now in the process of incorporating (a) media bed(s) into their rather impressive operation.</p>
<p><a rel="nofollow" href="http://aquaponicscommunity.com/profiles/blogs/is-integrating-media-beds-with-dwc-worth-it">http://aquaponicscommunity.com/profiles/blogs/is-integrating-media-...</a></p>
<p>It seems <em>absolutely</em> practical to <em>modify</em> a Friendlys type system to incorporate media beds (and sump). As with a lot of things in aquaponics, there are probably a number of ways to go about doing so. Each will be dependent on the operators wants, location, economics, available materials etc...respecting some basic principles, as well as trial and error reports of those building/running such systems. There are already people doing this (for some time now), flood and drain media bed to DWC troughs. Even though it's not exactly ground breaking territory, you'd be hard pressed to find any concrete numbers. Using Dr. Leonards calculator as well as other peoples insights I feel it possible to arrive at a decent starting point, and go from there.</p>
<p>I think Green Acres is in the process of modifying their classes/training/program/tours to reflect their new philosophy and have recently teamed up with Sylvia Bernstein and Murray Hallam. Even though there aren't yet many large-ish, long running 'hybrid' systems out there from which to extrapolate practical data from, I would <em> definitely </em>want to listen what any of those people had to say. And if at all feasible, would like to attend such classes. </p>
<p>...My 2 cents. Hope some of it was helpful. </p>
<p>It would be <em><strong>very</strong> </em>cool to see you if you are ever in the neighborhood.</p>
<p> </p>
<p> </p>
<p><b><br/></b></p>
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<p><br/> <cite>Dino Pantelidis said:</cite></p>
<blockquote cite="http://aquaponicscommunity.com/forum/topics/indoor-basement-dwc-aquaponics-system-introduction#4778851Comment273461"><div><div class="xg_user_generated"><p>Interesting design.. Vlad I've got afew questions for you. I did the friendly training in April and have practically no experience in the world of aquaponics, I do have a zeal to learn from people who clearly have practical experience in aquaponics. I have begun building a small system as I mentioned before in one of my restaurant locations to see how it goes. I'd love to pick your brain with some questions regarding your last post, only to learn from it. seems that you know alot of stuff.</p>
<p></p>
<p><em>a)You wouldn't need a sump.</em></p>
<p><strong><em>Would it serve as a good purpose to have a sump for the event of expansion of grow beds, or any probe/sensor additions you made add in the future (assuming you have the space for expansion) and can simply utilize the sump as your "main junction point"?<br/></em></strong></p>
<p><em>b)You wouldn't </em>need SLO plumbing.</p>
<p><em><strong>I dont know much about SLO, but from what I've gathered it "sucks" up water from the bottom "up" and brings it over to the next area. in this case the media bed. Is this the most effective way to remove all the "detritus" from the fish tank and bring it over to the media bed? I've got afew aquariums and find that the bottom of the tank always ends up with fish waste and I end up siphoning it out manually.<br/></strong></em></p>
<p><em>There is absolutely no reason that I can think of for you to have to have a constant, continual flow moving through your DWC.</em></p>
<p><em><strong>When you say constant, continual flow of water - are you referring to the friendly type system? Is it practical to have a friendly type system, (with continuous flow of water through DWC) with the addition of a large media bed with worms using a flood and drain?</strong></em></p>
<p><em><br/></em></p>
<p><em>Thanks for taking the time to read/answer! Your information is always appreciated! I may be in Serbia this summer, I'd love to come see your operation!<br/></em></p>
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<p><strong><em><br/></em></strong></p>
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</blockquote> if you can get ahold of some…tag:aquaponicgardening.ning.com,2012-01-06:4778851:Comment:2736462012-01-06T02:21:41.242ZDamon Poltahttps://aquaponicgardening.ning.com/profile/DamonPolta
<p>if you can get ahold of some gammarus they'll be your best bet for a low energy source of solids filtration.</p>
<p></p>
<p>the answer to your water pump problem is really a question. it depends on the size of your growing area... the more you plit from the main fish tank, the bigger pump you'll need to push the water through the troughs.</p>
<p>if you can get ahold of some gammarus they'll be your best bet for a low energy source of solids filtration.</p>
<p></p>
<p>the answer to your water pump problem is really a question. it depends on the size of your growing area... the more you plit from the main fish tank, the bigger pump you'll need to push the water through the troughs.</p> Interesting design.. Vlad I'v…tag:aquaponicgardening.ning.com,2012-01-05:4778851:Comment:2734612012-01-05T23:07:47.677ZDino Pantelidishttps://aquaponicgardening.ning.com/profile/DinoPantelidis
<p>Interesting design.. Vlad I've got afew questions for you. I did the friendly training in April and have practically no experience in the world of aquaponics, I do have a zeal to learn from people who clearly have practical experience in aquaponics. I have begun building a small system as I mentioned before in one of my restaurant locations to see how it goes. I'd love to pick your brain with some questions regarding your last post, only to learn from it. seems that you know alot of…</p>
<p>Interesting design.. Vlad I've got afew questions for you. I did the friendly training in April and have practically no experience in the world of aquaponics, I do have a zeal to learn from people who clearly have practical experience in aquaponics. I have begun building a small system as I mentioned before in one of my restaurant locations to see how it goes. I'd love to pick your brain with some questions regarding your last post, only to learn from it. seems that you know alot of stuff.</p>
<p></p>
<p><em>a)You wouldn't need a sump.</em></p>
<p><strong><em>Would it serve as a good purpose to have a sump for the event of expansion of grow beds, or any probe/sensor additions you made add in the future (assuming you have the space for expansion) and can simply utilize the sump as your "main junction point"?<br/></em></strong></p>
<p><em>b)You wouldn't </em>need SLO plumbing.</p>
<p><em><strong>I dont know much about SLO, but from what I've gathered it "sucks" up water from the bottom "up" and brings it over to the next area. in this case the media bed. Is this the most effective way to remove all the "detritus" from the fish tank and bring it over to the media bed? I've got afew aquariums and find that the bottom of the tank always ends up with fish waste and I end up siphoning it out manually.<br/></strong></em></p>
<p><em>There is absolutely no reason that I can think of for you to have to have a constant, continual flow moving through your DWC.</em></p>
<p><em><strong>When you say constant, continual flow of water - are you referring to the friendly type system? Is it practical to have a friendly type system, (with continuous flow of water through DWC) with the addition of a large media bed with worms using a flood and drain?</strong></em></p>
<p><em><br/></em></p>
<p><em>Thanks for taking the time to read/answer! Your information is always appreciated! I may be in Serbia this summer, I'd love to come see your operation!<br/></em></p>
<p><em><br/></em></p>
<p><strong><em><br/></em></strong></p>
<p><strong><em><br/></em></strong></p>
<p><em><br/></em></p>
<p><em><br/></em></p> Hi Gabe,
Do you have the spa…tag:aquaponicgardening.ning.com,2012-01-05:4778851:Comment:2733052012-01-05T11:32:58.176ZVlad Jovanovichttps://aquaponicgardening.ning.com/profile/VladJovanovic
<p>Hi Gabe, </p>
<p>Do you have the space to get that 18 gallon 'media bed' <em>above</em> your DWC? It would be a keen thing to do IMO.</p>
<p>Since the media bed capacity is only 18 gallons that would mean that your fish tank is only fluctuating 7 or 8 gallons. (Remember that your media will displace about 60% of its water holding capacity, and your not filling it to it's brim anyways).</p>
<p>a)You wouldn't <em>need </em>a sump.</p>
<p>b)You wouldn't <em>need</em> SLO plumbing.</p>
<p>c)You…</p>
<p>Hi Gabe, </p>
<p>Do you have the space to get that 18 gallon 'media bed' <em>above</em> your DWC? It would be a keen thing to do IMO.</p>
<p>Since the media bed capacity is only 18 gallons that would mean that your fish tank is only fluctuating 7 or 8 gallons. (Remember that your media will displace about 60% of its water holding capacity, and your not filling it to it's brim anyways).</p>
<p>a)You wouldn't <em>need </em>a sump.</p>
<p>b)You wouldn't <em>need</em> SLO plumbing.</p>
<p>c)You could use your media bed to grow food (if I understand your drawing your media bed is more of a just gravel filter).</p>
<p>There is absolutely no reason that I can think of for you to have to have a constant, continual flow moving through your DWC. (In any case you could do with a couple of air stones in there for sure). If your media bed were above your DWC you could use either a timed flood and drain or a siphon to fill and drain your media bed intermittently and hence move water through your DWC. (I got the idea that you want constant flood/flow media bed because you thought that your DWC needed a constant trickle of water flowing through it at all times, which is not the case).</p>
<p>I doubt that you are going to be able to stock so many fish that pumping from the fish tank directly will cause your pump to fail.</p>
<p>If you are going to add worms, then you had better be supplying 'a lot' of dissolved oxygen in that water (unless you decide to used flood and drain and raise your media bed above your DWC).</p>
<p>Mineralization/nitrification eats up a lot of oxygen, and your worms wont survive being under constant water without ample DO (Dissolved Oxygen). Again getting your media bed above your DWC and using flood and drain method would help this oxygen situation. And it wont hurt you DWC one bit. It would also take less equipment, less plumbing, help supply more oxygen, and would enable you to grow more food (and maybe more diverse kinds of food).</p>
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<p> </p> I followed Vlad advices(if i…tag:aquaponicgardening.ning.com,2012-01-05:4778851:Comment:2729672012-01-05T02:08:11.447ZGabriele Baroccihttps://aquaponicgardening.ning.com/profile/GabrieleBarocci
<p><a href="http://storage.ning.com/topology/rest/1.0/file/get/2730297699?profile=original" target="_self"><img class="align-full" src="http://storage.ning.com/topology/rest/1.0/file/get/2730297699?profile=RESIZE_1024x1024" width="721"></img></a></p>
<p>I followed Vlad advices(if i undestood well):</p>
<p>I added a 18G media bed and as small sump (FT,SUMP and MB have the same deep)</p>
<p>I added a SLO (3)</p>
<p>the green line is the PVC 1/2" pipe</p>
<p>question:</p>
<p>A) with this plumbing the water in the tree tanks will be the same, right?</p>
<p>B) is the SLO piping right?</p>
<p>C) the media in the MEDIA BED…</p>
<p><a href="http://storage.ning.com/topology/rest/1.0/file/get/2730297699?profile=original" target="_self"><img width="721" src="http://storage.ning.com/topology/rest/1.0/file/get/2730297699?profile=RESIZE_1024x1024" width="721" class="align-full"/></a></p>
<p>I followed Vlad advices(if i undestood well):</p>
<p>I added a 18G media bed and as small sump (FT,SUMP and MB have the same deep)</p>
<p>I added a SLO (3)</p>
<p>the green line is the PVC 1/2" pipe</p>
<p>question:</p>
<p>A) with this plumbing the water in the tree tanks will be the same, right?</p>
<p>B) is the SLO piping right?</p>
<p>C) the media in the MEDIA BED must be lower or higher the water level(i will add worms)?</p>
<p>D) the sump in this configuration doesn't have to be too big, just the same height of the other tanks, right?</p>
<p></p>
<p></p>
<p>thanks for your help</p>
<p>Gabriele</p>
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<p></p> I don't see why that would no…tag:aquaponicgardening.ning.com,2012-01-04:4778851:Comment:2723872012-01-04T03:19:40.934ZVlad Jovanovichttps://aquaponicgardening.ning.com/profile/VladJovanovic
<p>I don't see why that would not be possible. Though you might be limiting the media bed to very short plants by placing it where it is, but if you primary concern is filtration and not growing space, then why not. </p>
<p>I don't see why that would not be possible. Though you might be limiting the media bed to very short plants by placing it where it is, but if you primary concern is filtration and not growing space, then why not. </p> Oh yeah, sump size is general…tag:aquaponicgardening.ning.com,2012-01-03:4778851:Comment:2723492012-01-03T23:26:40.822ZVlad Jovanovichttps://aquaponicgardening.ning.com/profile/VladJovanovic
<p>Oh yeah, sump size is generally about 40% of your media bed volume.</p>
<p>So if your media bed is 100 liters and it's filled with rocks, you could only fill it with about 40 liters of water (in reality you'd have even less water than that in there, since its probably not filled to the top with media, and you are only flooding it to an inch or two below the surface of that media...but I'd use 40% as a sizing guide anyways) <br></br> <br></br> <cite>Vlad Jovanovic said:…</cite></p>
<p>Oh yeah, sump size is generally about 40% of your media bed volume.</p>
<p>So if your media bed is 100 liters and it's filled with rocks, you could only fill it with about 40 liters of water (in reality you'd have even less water than that in there, since its probably not filled to the top with media, and you are only flooding it to an inch or two below the surface of that media...but I'd use 40% as a sizing guide anyways) <br/> <br/> <cite>Vlad Jovanovic said:</cite></p>
<blockquote cite="http://aquaponicscommunity.com/forum/comment/show?id=4778851%3AComment%3A272296&xn_out=json&firstPage=1&lastPage=1&xg_token=d123d2ce2e3cb321fa5561958b25deb1&_=1325632849091#4778851Comment272296"><div><p>It should not be a problem to not have <em>constant flow</em> to your DWC, since your fish tank is 50 gallons you want <em>at least </em>that much water flowing through the entire system in an hour.</p>
<p>With a flood and drain type bed, your DWC trough will get its water in 'rushes' as the media bed empties (which shouldn't be a problem...just don't be too skimpy with your cycling per hour :) Of course you could always run your media bed as constant flood/constant flow if you want to. It doesn't have to be flood and drain.</p>
<p> Maybe look into SLO (Solids Lift Overflow, could be interesting for you).</p>
<p>If you don't have to have the fish tank as the lowest component it would be a bit easier, a simple overflow pipe leading to the media bed would do. No pump in the fish tank necessary, as long as you had good ample air churning up solids. <br/> <br/> <cite>Gabriele Barocci said:</cite></p>
<blockquote cite="http://aquaponicscommunity.com/forum/topics/indoor-basement-dwc-aquaponics-system-introduction#4778851Comment272283"><div><div class="xg_user_generated"><p>thanks Vlad,</p>
<p>I DO like the idea to keep all valuable nutrients in the system, so i prefer the media bed solution,but...</p>
<p>... when you say media bed, you intend a media bed as "Flood and Drain system"?But in this way i will not have a constant flow to the DWC Bed, right?is that a problem? </p>
<p>another problem could be the room, the system is going to be in my basement, i would prefer to have a raised dwc bed so the fish thank can be underneath it and save same space. </p>
<p>could be something like this:</p>
<p>1) FT with pump > media bed > gravity > DWC > gravity > FT :</p>
<p>is this way the solids waste go trough the pump (not desirable, considering the pump is going to be one of this fountain pump) and i will still have the problem (?)of the non constant flow to the DWC.</p>
<p>2) FT raised (1 foot but still underneath the DWC ) > gravity > media bed> sump with pump> DWC bed >gravity> FT:</p>
<p>now i'm lost with the plumbing and sump size.</p>
<p>Thanks again</p>
<p>Gabriele<br/> <br/> <cite>Vlad Jovanovic said:</cite></p>
<blockquote cite="http://aquaponicscommunity.com/forum/topics/indoor-basement-dwc-aquaponics-system-introduction#4778851Comment272409"><div><div class="xg_user_generated"><p>Hello Gabriele,</p>
<p>If I were building ....</p>
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