In Ground Growbeds?

[Johnny Hall]

now maybe my only marble is way out of place(again) but im wondering about lining a dug trench or shape with underlayment like old carpet and adding liner and media. let the ft (fish tank) overflow (slo) into this dug in gb and then just drain into deeper dug in st (sump tank), it could still be chft-pist ( i think it can)

 

yes it would be a deep dig for st and this would not work where water table is shallow but it would eliminate a lot of materials including stands and the weight supporting issues we all face holding up tons of water and rocks

 

down side is the digging of course , and bending over to pick and prune (on some plants) , and more pest probs maybe even inside of greenhouse you would probably still get more pests. if not dug right , then possible non system water intrusion would be an issue. but i live on a hill now and channeling water is something i already have to do for my place ie: french drains and swales

 

but what else do you all see as major probs with this latest wacky idea of mine?

 

johnny

 

 

[TCLynx]

I think this idea is close to what I call a gravel filled sump. Instead of making it separate from the sump tank, I would probably just install the pump in a deeper pocket protected from the gravel at one end.

 

It would be important to support the rim of the bed liner above the ground level to keep ground water from washing in but that can be done (my duck system essentially uses an in ground sump bed.)

I would strongly advise avoiding wood against the liner since it could cause termite leeks.

 

If the gravel filled sump in ground grow bed is filled with gravel you avoid most of the floating issues from high water tables too.  If the pump is in lined space in the bed there is the benefit of not needing to plumb through the liner.

 

Only real issue I've seen with such a bed is if the pump moves water really fast, it might surpass the flow rate of the gravel and tend to run a bit dry.  So larger media might be a good idea at least for the lower levels of the bed. 

 

There are drawbacks to having the bed on the ground but if one grows mostly tall plants in it then the bending will be minimized.

[Mike Creuzer]

I was talking about something like this with the wife just last night.

 

She wants an ornamental pond. I want to raise fish. Big fish raising ornamental pond is the answer. But having normal elevated grow beds would kinda ruin the effect, so I am likely to put in some grow beds on the ground. Make them look like fancy square foot garden raised beds. Probably be half dug, half raised. Can't go too deep or gonna have trouble with them not draining into the grade level pond. I've a flat back yard.

[TCLynx]

If the pond is at grade level and you dig the grow beds in, you will have two problems.  1, grade level pond getting overflowed with dirty water over the ground during heavy rain.  2, grow beds dug half way into the ground will have trouble draining into a pond that is at ground level and those grow beds will only partially drain.

 

There are a couple options.  1, raise up the pond and do some brick, stone work or landscaping around it so you can have it drain to the grow beds then the lowest grow bed (perhaps dug most of the way in the ground could have the pump that feeds back up to the pond and do a CHIFT PIST (or CHOP) type system calling the grow bed with the pump in it the "sump".  Or make sure the grow beds are rather deep so that the below grade section not draining isn't a problem.

 

Keep in mind that fluctuating water levels are not necessarily a good thing in an ornamental pond so the CHOP option might be a good idea.

Mike Creuzer said:

I was talking about something like this with the wife just last night.

 

She wants an ornamental pond. I want to raise fish. Big fish raising ornamental pond is the answer. But having normal elevated grow beds would kinda ruin the effect, so I am likely to put in some grow beds on the ground. Make them look like fancy square foot garden raised beds. Probably be half dug, half raised. Can't go too deep or gonna have trouble with them not draining into the grade level pond. I've a flat back yard.

[Johnny Hall]

with my little 300 gallon poly FT sitting up on top of the ground and GB dug into the soil to about a foot deep , this should work just fine as CHOP , probs im having is as always space inside GH and the routing of the GB "ditches" , also concerned about expansion for summer times i would like to just continue said "ditches" under GH glass wall and out into the yard. so routing and also proper fall has had me spending a lot of time trying to sight and measure. i even thought i maybe should run a wicking bed type center feed pipe in the bottom of said "ditch" to further facilitate flow? 

 

plan twice and dig once , make that plan 23 times dig once lol

 

 

TCLynx said:

If the pond is at grade level and you dig the grow beds in, you will have two problems.  1, grade level pond getting overflowed with dirty water over the ground during heavy rain.  2, grow beds dug half way into the ground will have trouble draining into a pond that is at ground level and those grow beds will only partially drain.

 

There are a couple options.  1, raise up the pond and do some brick, stone work or landscaping around it so you can have it drain to the grow beds then the lowest grow bed (perhaps dug most of the way in the ground could have the pump that feeds back up to the pond and do a CHIFT PIST (or CHOP) type system calling the grow bed with the pump in it the "sump".  Or make sure the grow beds are rather deep so that the below grade section not draining isn't a problem.

 

Keep in mind that fluctuating water levels are not necessarily a good thing in an ornamental pond so the CHOP option might be a good idea.

Mike Creuzer said:

I was talking about something like this with the wife just last night.

 

She wants an ornamental pond. I want to raise fish. Big fish raising ornamental pond is the answer. But having normal elevated grow beds would kinda ruin the effect, so I am likely to put in some grow beds on the ground. Make them look like fancy square foot garden raised beds. Probably be half dug, half raised. Can't go too deep or gonna have trouble with them not draining into the grade level pond. I've a flat back yard.

[TCLynx]

Yea, sounds pretty good.  Just keep in mind that a really long in ground bed will not have immediate flow through hence your pipe in the bottom could be a good idea.  I've done 28 foot long on/in ground grow beds and the flow through the 1/2" brown river rock can become a bit slow for that length of bed, I certainly wouldn't go any longer unless you can get larger media.

[Johnny Hall]

i better run the perforated black pipe in the center channel of the ditch then. you know me and media woes. im also thinking
media in the head trenches and possibly even rafts in the ST end of things. for now though it wont be any longer than 35 feet
total.

 

TCLynx said:

Yea, sounds pretty good.  Just keep in mind that a really long in ground bed will not have immediate flow through hence your pipe in the bottom could be a good idea.  I've done 28 foot long on/in ground grow beds and the flow through the 1/2" brown river rock can become a bit slow for that length of bed, I certainly wouldn't go any longer unless you can get larger media.

[TCLynx]

I've found that milk crates with some finer mesh could probably work to keep the media away from the pump.

[Lee Scott]

I'm so new to this that anything I ask/say should be taken with caution.

 

I live beside a river.  I have many acres beside this river.

I'm wondering if using the river as a source for the garden is a good or bad idea?

Also, is there any advantage/disadvantage to creating large ponds that are fed by the river (pumped) and then pushed into the garden?

Of course, I saw the answer by TCLynx about the disadvantages of the in ground ponds.

 

Thanks,

[TCLynx]

I would do some careful water testing on what the river water contains before deciding to use it heavily.  This will require some extra research on your part and deciding what you feel is safe to put into a recirculating system you will be eating from.

 

Aquaponics generally doesn't require large water changes if it is balanced well so it isn't like you need to be using hundreds of gallons of water per day.  Aquaponics recirculates the fish water through the aquaponics beds and back to the fish so having a great source of water right next to it is not necessarily a big benefit.  Aquaponics uses far less water than a soil garden.

 

Now if you are talking about using river water to replace the aquaponics water and dumping the aquaponics water into the dirt garden, well your dirt garden will probably love it but the aquaponics might have a difficult time staying stable with really large water changes all the time.