Aquaponic Gardening

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What HID reflectors do you use and why? 

 

I know there are other good options, but if you only need 4" or no air-cooling, i keep coming back to the Super Sun original.  I have tried Maybe 7or 8 others.  The super sun original (there is a super sun 2 which i dont like as much, but it does have 6" air-cooled fittings)  is extremely small and lightweight, while sending out a fairly even footprint for all size bulbs.  I have used 400, 600, and 1000W in this reflector.  This reflector would be good for supplemental light in a GH since it is so small it would creating little shading of natural light during the day.  The only downside is it only has 4" air-cooled fittings. I ahev tried 6" and 8" air-cooled reflectors such as Cool Sun XL 8" and the Yield Master 6" and have noticed a poor light footprint (uneven) and a lot of light being lost through the holes for the ducting. The Super Sun OG has reflective covers over the air-cooled ports so that no light is lost down the air cooled ducting.  I will search for an extremely in-depth post from another forum that has people taking a light meter every square inch w/ different reflectors and data logging it.  If i remember correctly i think the Super Sun OG was one of the better ones (least hot spots, most even footprint). I look for that info.

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i have not seen any algae problems if the water is run on a closed loop, meaning you use a separate reservoir not connected to the growing systems.  Then you use a heat exchanger of some sort submerged into the res/FT if the h2o is to cold in the res/FT, or if the res/FT is at the correct temp you run a h2o chiller.  

 

Light rails are my favorite piece of lighting equipment. They use 3-10 watts depending on the brand and model.  I plug them in on the same timer as my light. The new one that i really like, light rail 4.0, actually has adjustable speed, which is amazing.  Normally the speed it preset. They do in general go very slow (which is optimal).  Also they all come with a delay setting which is anywhere from 0-60 seconds.  This programs the time it sits when it reaches the end of the rail before it goes back the other way.  Adding a light rail in every situation is beneficial for HID and sometimes for florescents.  The light moving increases the surface area of leaf where light hits, minimizing shading of the lower canopy and increasing growth.  Also it minimizes hot-spots.

 

For AP i am almost done with my system which is a combination of all the types. I will start with what i have the most of and then go to the least: Ebb+flow, NFT,  Raft, and 1 drip bucket.

For hydro i like: E+F and NFT the most, but i also do like DWC and drip buckets as well.

What types are u running Logical, e+f ?

I'll definitely have to get a light rail. I'm going to run 4 consecutive drip buckets and that should allow me to use one light and get excellent coverage. Where did you get the 4.0?

 

That's a really nice setup for the AP. Is there a reason you are running such diverse systems or are you just working with what you have? Does all of that take up your entire basement? Is your AP up and running?

 

I am starting ebb and flow for the first time for my AP and plan to add some vertical systems as soon as I figure out what I want. I have run drip buckets and DWC for hydro and was impressed with both. What nutrients did you use for hydro? Are you running both Hydro and AP right now?

I got the 4.0 from a hydro store in Madison, WI.  Most hydro stores should have it, or be able to order it for ya.

 

I wanted combine all the systems, because 1. NFT can go vertical (up the walls) 2. i wanted to see if e+f would proved enough filtration for NFT and DWC 3. because i love growing every way i can think of, LOL.  My AP system only takes up a small portion of my basement, though my basement is huge.  I still have an enormous laundry room, a jam space for all my instruments, a meditation area (which does have some of my AP system in there), a oyster mushrooms inoculation room, and an oyster mushrooms fruiting chamber ( run an micro-scale oyster mushroom farm for most of my income).  Lets see, the dimensions of my AP system are: a 9'x10' room (2 100 gal FT, 77' of  NFT on the walls, and a 4'x8' e+f bed), outside that room is a 2'x4' shelving unit going to the ceiling (e+f tray on each shelf), a 4'x8' e+f, and a 2'x4' DWC.  I am just getting leaks plugged, and i need 1 more run to the hydro store this week and my AP be completed. I hope to start cycling within a week from now.  I have a post on my setup, but it doesnt have all the pictures yet. Check it out.

 

I always have hydro systems going, less in summer more in winter. If AP works out well, im sure i will be growing much less hydro.  I think Flora Nova added with a bunch of supplements is my favorite, but lately i have been running Pure Blend Pro because it is practically organic.  The new CAMG+ from General Organics is a great organic-type replacement to Botanicare's CalMag which is not organic at all.  I always need a camg supplement because i use RO.

 

 


LogicalHydro said:

I'll definitely have to get a light rail. I'm going to run 4 consecutive drip buckets and that should allow me to use one light and get excellent coverage. Where did you get the 4.0?

 

That's a really nice setup for the AP. Is there a reason you are running such diverse systems or are you just working with what you have? Does all of that take up your entire basement? Is your AP up and running?

 

I am starting ebb and flow for the first time for my AP and plan to add some vertical systems as soon as I figure out what I want. I have run drip buckets and DWC for hydro and was impressed with both. What nutrients did you use for hydro? Are you running both Hydro and AP right now?

That sounds like a fresh setup you got going there. I would love to check it out, too bad you're not nearby. Those pictures look like you have everything figure out, I can't wait to see the yields you get. Oyster mushrooms, that's a first that I have heard about growing those in a house. Sounds like fun, the only mushroom farming they do in Colorado in doors is psilocybin mushrooms lol, and there isn't much to that. I bet you get a good vibe off your plants for your music and meditation.

It sounds like we will be starting AP around the same time, I'm just waiting for outside temps to get a little more stable before I start so I don't have to heat my room. Have you ever run CO2? Do you use RO for any particular reason?

I tried some AN products, but most recently tried Roots Organics line. It worked really well, it was just a little expensive and pretty nasty lookin.

Yeah im excited about getting this AP setup going. Next time i make it out to CO we'll have to meet up. Its cool we are starting AP at the same time, we should bounce ideas off each over as we go through the process.  Are you planning on cycling your system with or without fish?

 

I have not run CO2 because the controllers are expensive and i hate buying tanks or creating CO2 w/ generators. I am going to try to boost my CO2 levels through organic means though.  I put my FT in the grow room because they are animals and they put out a decent amount of CO2 just like us.  Also i want to put worms bins on the unused floor space which also produces CO2.  My third idea (which they do have a commercial available product that does this called "CO2 Boost Bucket" ) is to grow mycelium/ mushrooms in the room which put out a crap load of CO2.  I might try the "CO2 Boost Bucket"; you normally have to get refills every 2-3 months, but you can compost the inside stuff(which is mycelium) when it done.  I was think also of buying it once and cloning whatever fungi that is in the bucket in my mini-lab, and creating refills myself for a few $.

I always use RO for hydroponics for a few reasons: using RO gives you almost pure H20 so that you know exactly how much nutrients you are putting in; also it elimintes chlorine, flouride, and nearly all other contaminates in the H20 supply.  I also have a UV sterilizer as well that i use to kill bad bacteria and such because i am on a well.

AN is too expensive, and i haven't personally tried it, but i think they make more claims then their products lives up to.  But ive heard Roots Organics is some good shit from my buddy.

LogicalHydro said:

That sounds like a fresh setup you got going there. I would love to check it out, too bad you're not nearby. Those pictures look like you have everything figure out, I can't wait to see the yields you get. Oyster mushrooms, that's a first that I have heard about growing those in a house. Sounds like fun, the only mushroom farming they do in Colorado in doors is psilocybin mushrooms lol, and there isn't much to that. I bet you get a good vibe off your plants for your music and meditation.

It sounds like we will be starting AP around the same time, I'm just waiting for outside temps to get a little more stable before I start so I don't have to heat my room. Have you ever run CO2? Do you use RO for any particular reason?

I tried some AN products, but most recently tried Roots Organics line. It worked really well, it was just a little expensive and pretty nasty lookin.

Yeah, let me know if you ever decide to and we'll meet up. I have never cycled a tank before so I'm not completely sure. It seems like more people suggest the fishless approach, but even then I don't know if I would use ammonia or urine, and whether I would wait for bacteria to show up or try introducing it. I just bought a test kit so hopefully I can decide soon so that I can start. Also I'm not sure what plants i'm going to start with or when I'm going to add them. What approach are you going to use?

 

I would like to use an RO, but am currently just using a sediment and chlorine filter. It's city water so I hope it's not too bad other than that, but it probably is. Where do you sell all of your produce to? Is that your main source of income?

 

AN is way expensive, that's why I tried organic and jumped into AP. They try to sell bogus supplements like Voodoo Juice for ridiculous prices when you can get root stimulators elsewhere that are just as good. I was getting great yields though so it wasn't all bad.

Im going to fishless cycle.  I bought ammonium chloride by proline from Aquatic ecosystems (this is THE resource for aquaculture/ponics gear), and i have maxicrop and earth nectar/ambrosia to get things going.  I would have bought some nitrospira liquid cultures, but they are a little pricey for something that will come to your system on its own.

I just bought my property (6.66 acres lol yeah devils number) June of last year so i am in the process of getting things going to live off the land.  My life partner Cassie works as a waitress and makes most of our income right now.  I did build a 18'x30' greenhouse last fall so i should have alot of produce early this year.  As we make more and more $ from selling produce Cassie will quit her waitress job.  I sell my produce at farmers markets (which is my favorite), local coops, and to friends.  I will probably hit up restaurants if i cant sell everything at the farmers markets and in the winter when there inst that many farmers markets around here.  But i focus on oyster mushrooms which i do year-round indoors (i have been growing them for 1.5 years now).  I will start with 50lbs a week then go to 100lbs a week.  Right now ive been growing like 5-15lbs   I sell oysters for $7 a lb wholesale.  I personally beleive that selling oyster mushrooms gives you the best profit out of any other produce, at least for my situation.  All you really need is wheat straw (which there is so much here in the gr8 plains).  And when their done growing you can make mushroom compost :)

Yeah I'll probably end up going fishless, but I'm not as decided as you are. Maybe we could do different methods and compare. What fish are you going to raise when you do get cycled? Any particular plants in mind?

I hope to start in a farmers market and go from there. I am trying to find my "cash crop" right now like your oyster mushrooms. I have never tried them, but they look amazing!

I really respect what you are doing and I wish you the best of luck!

Thanks for the encouragement, good luck with your endeavors as well. 

I dont want to do fish cycling because some will definitely die, poor fishies.  Plenty of people do cycle with fish though.  Im gonna do tilapia, but im afraid of them making babies like crazy.  I will have to figure out a way to get around this, without buying hormone laced fish.  Im going to grow 4'x8' e+f and 24' of NFT of basil to take to market. The rest i am gonna grow leafy greens, herbs, a few strawberrys, and 1 big vining plant to grow up an empty wall, prolly a tomato.  The basil i will do perpetual harvests and harvest 1/4 of the growing space each week.  Im hoping to get 10+ lbs each harvest, we'll c though.  At farmers markets basil goes for $16 a lb, but you can only sell so much.  I will be able to sell all that basil, but i will prolly have to lower my prices from what i get at the framrs mrkt. One thing about plants in the AP system, i want to grow plants that you can eat almost the entire thing to be as efficient with the nutrients in the system as possible.  You cant eat eggplant or tomatoes leaves, so in general i will save those for my soil gardens.  I think lettuce, herbs, and asian greens are the way to go; but thats just my preference.

Thank you! That sounds like an excellent idea. I think I'm going to go with Blue Tilapia because they tolerate the colder water a little better than the Nile Tilapia and I don't want to heat my tank. I think i'll spend quite awhile on the trial and error phase to try and get a good feel on how the plants and fish react to the system before I focus on a few crops or types of fish. It does seem like everything is GMO now so that is a good thing to steer clear of. When are you going to start cycling?

I should be starting to cycle this thursday, but im gonna say this weekend, because it always seems like there is something else with my crazy-rigged system (normally leaks). I like your experimental attitude, try things out c how they work for your needs and then let the forum know how it goes. We should start a discussion on how to prevent tilapia from breeding.  I found an old 1 from a year ago, im not sure whether to add to this old one or start a new 1. 

 

Also on the topic of this discussion (HID Reflectors) i did find the forum where they measured a bunch of reflectors with a light meter.  The Super Sun 2 and the Magnum XXXL had the best reflectivity and footprint.  Im afraid of the XXXL, its so damn big and heavy.  If you want the link to look at the details let me know.

Yeah we will see how it works out. I bet if we start up the old one it will be good. It's just not a common topic so responses will probably take awhile for those that eventually encounter the problem. Ill try and start cycling mine saturday. Where are you going to get your tilapia?

I think we should probably continue this discussion in a more appropriate place lol. Those XXXL 8" reflectors are crazy big. I don't think I would ever get one that big. If I had the cash I would definitely get a photometer. And try different lights, heights, and systems.

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