Got my IBC system up, having a plumbing problem... - Aquaponic Gardening2024-03-28T18:54:23Zhttps://aquaponicgardening.ning.com/forum/topics/got-my-ibc-system-up-having-a-plumbing-problem?groupUrl=ibc-aquaponics&commentId=4778851%3AComment%3A631225&groupId=4778851%3AGroup%3A392501&feed=yes&xn_auth=noJim,
Just to update things he…tag:aquaponicgardening.ning.com,2016-06-25:4778851:Comment:6318502016-06-25T19:28:53.913ZBlake Allenhttps://aquaponicgardening.ning.com/profile/BlakeAllen
<p>Jim,</p>
<p><br></br>Just to update things here --<br></br><br></br>I decided rather than figuring out how to get two drains draining at the same time to plumb them separately . This instantly fixed my problems and things are working perfectly. I've added a light screen over my sump tank and fish tank to keep debris out as there is a large oak tree above/nearby that likes to share leaves. I've added 12 goldfish as of late yesterday. This morning I awoke to two that had died - Im going to attribute…</p>
<p>Jim,</p>
<p><br/>Just to update things here --<br/><br/>I decided rather than figuring out how to get two drains draining at the same time to plumb them separately . This instantly fixed my problems and things are working perfectly. I've added a light screen over my sump tank and fish tank to keep debris out as there is a large oak tree above/nearby that likes to share leaves. I've added 12 goldfish as of late yesterday. This morning I awoke to two that had died - Im going to attribute this to either shock or water temp - its a bit warm. Will monitor and see if I conitnue to have fish problems. <br/><br/>Thanks again for all the help. I'll try to figure out a solids filter in the coming weeks.</p>
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<p>--Blake</p> I used a 15g barrel. Traps si…tag:aquaponicgardening.ning.com,2016-06-12:4778851:Comment:6312372016-06-12T16:10:32.248ZJim Fiskhttps://aquaponicgardening.ning.com/profile/JimFisk
<p><a href="http://storage.ning.com/topology/rest/1.0/file/get/2730468620?profile=original" target="_self"><img class="align-full" src="http://storage.ning.com/topology/rest/1.0/file/get/2730468620?profile=RESIZE_1024x1024" width="721"></img></a> <a href="http://storage.ning.com/topology/rest/1.0/file/get/2730468702?profile=original" target="_self"><img class="align-full" src="http://storage.ning.com/topology/rest/1.0/file/get/2730468702?profile=RESIZE_1024x1024" width="721"></img></a> <a href="http://storage.ning.com/topology/rest/1.0/file/get/2772268986?profile=original" target="_self"><img class="align-full" src="http://storage.ning.com/topology/rest/1.0/file/get/2772268986?profile=RESIZE_1024x1024" width="721"></img></a> <a href="http://storage.ning.com/topology/rest/1.0/file/get/2730496892?profile=original" target="_self"><img class="align-full" src="http://storage.ning.com/topology/rest/1.0/file/get/2730496892?profile=RESIZE_1024x1024" width="721"></img></a> I used a 15g barrel.…</p>
<p><a target="_self" href="http://storage.ning.com/topology/rest/1.0/file/get/2730468620?profile=original"><img width="721" class="align-full" src="http://storage.ning.com/topology/rest/1.0/file/get/2730468620?profile=RESIZE_1024x1024" width="721"/></a><a target="_self" href="http://storage.ning.com/topology/rest/1.0/file/get/2730468702?profile=original"><img width="721" class="align-full" src="http://storage.ning.com/topology/rest/1.0/file/get/2730468702?profile=RESIZE_1024x1024" width="721"/></a><a target="_self" href="http://storage.ning.com/topology/rest/1.0/file/get/2772268986?profile=original"><img width="721" class="align-full" src="http://storage.ning.com/topology/rest/1.0/file/get/2772268986?profile=RESIZE_1024x1024" width="721"/></a><a target="_self" href="http://storage.ning.com/topology/rest/1.0/file/get/2730496892?profile=original"><img width="721" class="align-full" src="http://storage.ning.com/topology/rest/1.0/file/get/2730496892?profile=RESIZE_1024x1024" width="721"/></a>I used a 15g barrel. Traps sinkers and floaters just like a septic tank is designed to do. KISS This is actually pics from 2 different models so the lid center hole is not necessary. In one side and out the other using Uniseals and 1 1/4" pipe in my case.</p> Jim,Thanks for the reply, you…tag:aquaponicgardening.ning.com,2016-06-12:4778851:Comment:6311952016-06-12T16:01:25.955ZBlake Allenhttps://aquaponicgardening.ning.com/profile/BlakeAllen
<p>Jim,<br></br><br></br>Thanks for the reply, you have been tremendously helpful in the design and buildout of this system and I greatly appreciate your advice and tips. I'll see about adding an air vent like you suggest, that does make alot of sense now that you've explained it. Things have been running smooth for 24 hours now, which is the best its done in a year :). I think a couple gold fish will be soon.<br></br><br></br>Next up I think I need to get a solids filter going. I have plumbing to support…</p>
<p>Jim,<br/><br/>Thanks for the reply, you have been tremendously helpful in the design and buildout of this system and I greatly appreciate your advice and tips. I'll see about adding an air vent like you suggest, that does make alot of sense now that you've explained it. Things have been running smooth for 24 hours now, which is the best its done in a year :). I think a couple gold fish will be soon.<br/><br/>Next up I think I need to get a solids filter going. I have plumbing to support one just need to get a barrel and create one.</p>
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<p>Thanks again!</p>
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<p>--Blake</p> Blake, any air gap will do. I…tag:aquaponicgardening.ning.com,2016-06-12:4778851:Comment:6311942016-06-12T15:16:50.020ZJim Fiskhttps://aquaponicgardening.ning.com/profile/JimFisk
<p>Blake, any air gap will do. I use a T in the common drain (I have 5 IBC 12" media beds all running into a common drain running below the beds) and I run a 1" pipe over and up the back of the beds at each bell drain entrance but others just run the 1" into an open T of a larger size and get the vent that way. Most people do not understand house plumbing and the fact that EVERY sink, toilet, tub, shower, etc. have a vent in the wall that breaks the siphon of the drain lines. In the case of…</p>
<p>Blake, any air gap will do. I use a T in the common drain (I have 5 IBC 12" media beds all running into a common drain running below the beds) and I run a 1" pipe over and up the back of the beds at each bell drain entrance but others just run the 1" into an open T of a larger size and get the vent that way. Most people do not understand house plumbing and the fact that EVERY sink, toilet, tub, shower, etc. have a vent in the wall that breaks the siphon of the drain lines. In the case of house plumbing all those vents go out the roof. Just look at the roof of any house. It is called the "stink pipe" and without it all the traps in the house would interfere with each other and empty every time a sink was used or a toilet was flushed and then all the septic gases would be in the house. Plumbing 101. You must separate the drains from one another and all it takes is a vent to do that. I vented every 2 beds as you can see in the picture but I should have done each one. Working fine for 4 years nonetheless.<a target="_self" href="http://storage.ning.com/topology/rest/1.0/file/get/2772270210?profile=original"><img class="align-full" src="http://storage.ning.com/topology/rest/1.0/file/get/2772270210?profile=original" width="607"/></a></p> Jim,
In doing my own research…tag:aquaponicgardening.ning.com,2016-06-11:4778851:Comment:6310002016-06-11T19:41:34.043ZBlake Allenhttps://aquaponicgardening.ning.com/profile/BlakeAllen
<p>Jim,</p>
<p>In doing my own research it seems my problem with the drains not triggering is due to a lack of backpressure. This is a result of me going from 1" to 1.5" on the way down from the standpipe and then draining through a horizontal pipe thats larger (the 1.5"). This prevents enough back pressure and is why I need both beds to drain at the same time. In doing some research online it seems one way to add back pressure is to place the final return point under water in the sump, this…</p>
<p>Jim,</p>
<p>In doing my own research it seems my problem with the drains not triggering is due to a lack of backpressure. This is a result of me going from 1" to 1.5" on the way down from the standpipe and then draining through a horizontal pipe thats larger (the 1.5"). This prevents enough back pressure and is why I need both beds to drain at the same time. In doing some research online it seems one way to add back pressure is to place the final return point under water in the sump, this creates the required back pressure and works from my testing - I do think there is 1 problem and it might relate to the air gap you mention above. I think what I observe is that if one bed fills first and starts to drain, it creates such a strong siphon that it will "early drain" the other bed before its high enough to actually trigger its own siphon. <br/><br/>Could you explain what you mean by air gap? Are you referring to a T joint with the T part facing up to allow passing air out? <br/><br/>I've attached a picture of my sump with the return line underwater so you can see what Im referring to. </p>
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<p>I think in the end I'll have to run totally seperate lines like you suggest. I was trying to make things look a little nicer with a single combined pipe but its turning out to bite me :) </p>
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<p>Thanks for all the help!</p> BTW, even a gravel guard tha…tag:aquaponicgardening.ning.com,2016-06-11:4778851:Comment:6311882016-06-11T18:08:26.286ZJim Fiskhttps://aquaponicgardening.ning.com/profile/JimFisk
<p> BTW, even a gravel guard that is too restrictive will also cause problems as will to few holes at the bell bottom. Note that my bells are about 50% open at the bottom.</p>
<p> BTW, even a gravel guard that is too restrictive will also cause problems as will to few holes at the bell bottom. Note that my bells are about 50% open at the bottom.</p> Hey Blake, having made nearly…tag:aquaponicgardening.ning.com,2016-06-11:4778851:Comment:6311872016-06-11T17:51:03.353ZJim Fiskhttps://aquaponicgardening.ning.com/profile/JimFisk
<p>Hey Blake, having made nearly 2000 bell siphons for AP I am sure your problem is one of co-mingling as you mentioned. They MUST be independent of each other and should always have an air gap after the one or two 90's or even if it drains straight into the common return pipe like my wicking bed does. They will always interfere with each other otherwise. Here is a picture of our 12" media x 1" pipe model for reference in case it helps. The 2 rings are just for raising the level for seeding…</p>
<p>Hey Blake, having made nearly 2000 bell siphons for AP I am sure your problem is one of co-mingling as you mentioned. They MUST be independent of each other and should always have an air gap after the one or two 90's or even if it drains straight into the common return pipe like my wicking bed does. They will always interfere with each other otherwise. Here is a picture of our 12" media x 1" pipe model for reference in case it helps. The 2 rings are just for raising the level for seeding direct or seedlings so don't be confused by those. They just get dropped into the 2" funnel top.<a target="_self" href="http://storage.ning.com/topology/rest/1.0/file/get/2772269836?profile=original"><img width="721" class="align-full" src="http://storage.ning.com/topology/rest/1.0/file/get/2772269836?profile=RESIZE_1024x1024" width="721"/></a></p> Jeff, Thanks for the reply -…tag:aquaponicgardening.ning.com,2016-06-11:4778851:Comment:6312262016-06-11T16:33:40.965ZBlake Allenhttps://aquaponicgardening.ning.com/profile/BlakeAllen
<p>Jeff, <br></br><br></br>Thanks for the reply - I am kinda in your camp as far as "as long as it drains at some point" - but the OCD part of me wants them to each work independently. From doing some quick reading I think the problem is due to plumping these two systems together, there is not enough back pressure in the drain pipe under the bed, which is larger than the bed thats solo plumped. 1" compared to 1.5" pipe. This requires both beds starting to drain to create enough flow to trigger the…</p>
<p>Jeff, <br/><br/>Thanks for the reply - I am kinda in your camp as far as "as long as it drains at some point" - but the OCD part of me wants them to each work independently. From doing some quick reading I think the problem is due to plumping these two systems together, there is not enough back pressure in the drain pipe under the bed, which is larger than the bed thats solo plumped. 1" compared to 1.5" pipe. This requires both beds starting to drain to create enough flow to trigger the siphon. Hoping Jim can help clear up where I might be going wrong. I am going to get some pictures of how the standpipe connects and plumbs together to see if you guys can help :) im almost 100% operational! </p>
<p></p> Unless your fish tank has a d…tag:aquaponicgardening.ning.com,2016-06-11:4778851:Comment:6310972016-06-11T16:27:10.477ZJeff Shttps://aquaponicgardening.ning.com/profile/JeffSullivan
<p>Unless your fish tank has a draining problem all the sump water should go there. If you need to divert some of the water divert it back into the sump. All the media grow beds should get their water directly from the fish tank. The beds are your filter and the nutrients come from the fish tank.</p>
<p>As for the bell siphons, as long as they all eventually trigger then there's no real problem other than all the water that the 2 beds hold together. Jim is the siphon expert. when he gets back…</p>
<p>Unless your fish tank has a draining problem all the sump water should go there. If you need to divert some of the water divert it back into the sump. All the media grow beds should get their water directly from the fish tank. The beds are your filter and the nutrients come from the fish tank.</p>
<p>As for the bell siphons, as long as they all eventually trigger then there's no real problem other than all the water that the 2 beds hold together. Jim is the siphon expert. when he gets back on I'm sure he can answer your siphon question thoroughly. Check out his profile here and facebook page Smoky Mountain Aquaponics.</p> Okay, so here is what i've ch…tag:aquaponicgardening.ning.com,2016-06-11:4778851:Comment:6312252016-06-11T15:45:39.192ZBlake Allenhttps://aquaponicgardening.ning.com/profile/BlakeAllen
<p>Okay, so here is what i've changed so far:<br></br><br></br>I've adjusted the plumbing so that all water goes to the top of the fish tank (height wise) then there is a T where some goes to the fish tank and some goes directly to the pipe feeding the grow beds, this seems to have resolved my pressure problems for now - but I want 24 hours without an issue before I mark this off the list.<br></br><br></br>Im now left with a problem with my bell siphons. While I youtube/google I figured I'd ask here and see…</p>
<p>Okay, so here is what i've changed so far:<br/><br/>I've adjusted the plumbing so that all water goes to the top of the fish tank (height wise) then there is a T where some goes to the fish tank and some goes directly to the pipe feeding the grow beds, this seems to have resolved my pressure problems for now - but I want 24 hours without an issue before I mark this off the list.<br/><br/>Im now left with a problem with my bell siphons. While I youtube/google I figured I'd ask here and see if one of you experts knows my problem and can help me get this resolved quicker :) <br/><br/>The way I have the beds plumped for return I have:<br/><br/>Bed #1 - Returns directly to the sump - the bell works great here - as soon as it starts to drip, within about 15-30 seconds the siphon triggers and things return, this bed requires lower flow than the other beds to trigger the siphon.</p>
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<p>Bed#2 and Bed #3 - These are both plumped together for their return to the sump through 1.5" pipe (The large pipe returning to sump) - All 3 standpipes are I believe 3/4 inch - its been about a year since I plumped that part. They adapt down underneth into the larger format pipe. Regardless - Both beds here will start to drain, but it seems to take both beds being flooded to trigger one of them to siphon, once its done the other will siphon and both are drained.<br/><br/>I've measured my bells and standpipes and while the standpipe is a different size in bed 1 (due to bed depth) they are all the same proportions. 12" stand pipe, 15" to the top of the bell, about 1.5" of holes in the bottom of the bell pipe to allow water in from the bottom. <br/><br/>To be clear: The siphon works, once triggered. it seems to take a long time to trigger. Do I just need to shorten the bell pipe so its closer to the top of the stand pipe? </p>
<p><br/>--Blake</p>