Dual Root Zone (possible for AP) - Aquaponic Gardening2024-03-29T13:52:24Zhttps://aquaponicgardening.ning.com/forum/topics/dual-root-zone-possible-for-ap?groupUrl=fish-less-systems&feed=yes&xn_auth=noThat's really interesting. W…tag:aquaponicgardening.ning.com,2014-04-30:4778851:Comment:5603532014-04-30T01:03:58.959ZTony Lhttps://aquaponicgardening.ning.com/profile/TonyL
<p>That's really interesting. What you're saying makes a lot of sense, about bioponics becoming more mainstream than AP (both residentially and commercially). I wonder if anyone has a large and/or commercial bioponic system going yet. </p>
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<p> <span style="font-size: 13px;">Rob Nash said:…</span></p>
<p>That's really interesting. What you're saying makes a lot of sense, about bioponics becoming more mainstream than AP (both residentially and commercially). I wonder if anyone has a large and/or commercial bioponic system going yet. </p>
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<p> <span style="font-size: 13px;">Rob Nash said:</span></p>
<blockquote cite="http://community.theaquaponicsource.com/forum/topics/dual-root-zone-possible-for-ap?groupUrl=fish-less-systems&commentId=4778851%3AComment%3A560526&groupId=4778851%3AGroup%3A283435#4778851Comment560522"><div class="xg_user_generated"><p>We discussed this at length at the last Aquaponic Conference and agreed it is called.. Bio-Ponics.</p>
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</blockquote> Vlad, sorry I somehow missed…tag:aquaponicgardening.ning.com,2014-04-30:4778851:Comment:5605262014-04-30T00:56:43.128ZTony Lhttps://aquaponicgardening.ning.com/profile/TonyL
<p>Vlad, sorry I somehow missed your reply until just now. Thank you for explaining that. I do not currently have too many nitrates, but I meet the rest of your qualifications about being diligent :) It's no big deal, I was just curious, I figured I better at least know what the "nitrate problem" is. I just have a hydro system at the moment so I have a long way to go before I bump into the AP nitrate issue!</p>
<p><br></br> <cite>Vlad Jovanovic said:…</cite></p>
<p>Vlad, sorry I somehow missed your reply until just now. Thank you for explaining that. I do not currently have too many nitrates, but I meet the rest of your qualifications about being diligent :) It's no big deal, I was just curious, I figured I better at least know what the "nitrate problem" is. I just have a hydro system at the moment so I have a long way to go before I bump into the AP nitrate issue!</p>
<p><br/> <cite>Vlad Jovanovic said:</cite></p>
<blockquote cite="http://community.theaquaponicsource.com/forum/topics/dual-root-zone-possible-for-ap?groupUrl=fish-less-systems&xg_source=msg_com_gr_forum&groupId=4778851%3AGroup%3A283435&id=4778851%3ATopic%3A283400&page=5#4778851Comment559941"><div class="xg_user_generated"><p></p>
<p>So if you have really high nitrates and can't add any more plants, or can't/don't want to get rid of many fish...and are of diligent mind, capable of following precise directions and keeping it up for weeks at a time...and following through...then sure, I could send you those links etc...(I don't mean to sound all high-falutin' about it, it's just one of those process' that will have catastrophic consequences if not done properly).</p>
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</blockquote> We discussed this at length a…tag:aquaponicgardening.ning.com,2014-04-30:4778851:Comment:5605222014-04-30T00:31:45.626ZRob Nashhttps://aquaponicgardening.ning.com/profile/RobNash
<p>We discussed this at length at the last Aquaponic Conference and agreed it is called.. Bio-Ponics.</p>
<p>Tom Speraneo was calling aquaponics that long ago.</p>
<p>not a sterile hydroponics system, but a living, bacteria and fungal rich environment... just like in aquaponics.. but instead of feeding the "soil/media" with fish poops, you choose from a wide range of options. ..and with out fish to kill, you can really have your way with it. ...i believe that bioponics will play a huge…</p>
<p>We discussed this at length at the last Aquaponic Conference and agreed it is called.. Bio-Ponics.</p>
<p>Tom Speraneo was calling aquaponics that long ago.</p>
<p>not a sterile hydroponics system, but a living, bacteria and fungal rich environment... just like in aquaponics.. but instead of feeding the "soil/media" with fish poops, you choose from a wide range of options. ..and with out fish to kill, you can really have your way with it. ...i believe that bioponics will play a huge roll in the future of large scale organic productin.. and back yards for that matter. ...and, dare i say.. maybe more than aquaponics.</p>
<p>so, while all aquaponics would be considered bioponics not all bioponics systems have fish.. just some thing to feed the media. ..worms, compost tea, etc.</p> Ah yes, of course, if the nit…tag:aquaponicgardening.ning.com,2014-04-29:4778851:Comment:5602762014-04-29T22:02:51.679ZTony Lhttps://aquaponicgardening.ning.com/profile/TonyL
<p>Ah yes, of course, if the nitrifying bacteria is in the fishless system it is an AP system, I get it now. Thanks for explaining that. </p>
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<p>Where you wrote "in my setup" you have it underlined, should that be a link?</p>
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<p>I will report back with my dual root experiments. I am going to separate the mediums with coco liner, I hope that's not a mistake. </p>
<p>Ah yes, of course, if the nitrifying bacteria is in the fishless system it is an AP system, I get it now. Thanks for explaining that. </p>
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<p>Where you wrote "in my setup" you have it underlined, should that be a link?</p>
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<p>I will report back with my dual root experiments. I am going to separate the mediums with coco liner, I hope that's not a mistake. </p> Sure Tony... yes, there is no…tag:aquaponicgardening.ning.com,2014-04-29:4778851:Comment:5604412014-04-29T21:26:03.462ZShaun Mavronicolashttps://aquaponicgardening.ning.com/profile/ShaunMav
<p>Sure Tony... yes, there is no other "term" for this. It is not hydroponics, so a simple next best term for this is fishless aquaponics as everything else is still there, short of the fish as part of the physical water loop. The nutrients still come from a fish system in the same space, the recirculating plant water simply does not return to the fish side.</p>
<p>I am not doing anything "new", all information is freely available on the web. I've gotten frustrated with the "typical" AP…</p>
<p>Sure Tony... yes, there is no other "term" for this. It is not hydroponics, so a simple next best term for this is fishless aquaponics as everything else is still there, short of the fish as part of the physical water loop. The nutrients still come from a fish system in the same space, the recirculating plant water simply does not return to the fish side.</p>
<p>I am not doing anything "new", all information is freely available on the web. I've gotten frustrated with the "typical" AP approach... I've had no joy growing a large number of fish and plants in the same system. This is mostly because we have 3-4 months of sunshine or usable growing weather a year, so when there is no sun around nitrates quickly wreak havoc and there is nothing that can be done, short of splitting things up.</p>
<p>I am exploring water remediation options to cleanse the RAS water during 8 months of the year when the plant loop will have little effect on water quality for the fish. Keep in mind with all this that fish and plant production is important in a space of less than 350sq ft. I hope to have fish year round with my staggered growing tanks, not the typical once a year harvest you get from most backyard AP systems.</p>
<p>I am derailing this thread which is about dual root zone growing so will end here with these final notes. Dual root zone growing <span style="text-decoration: underline;">in my setup</span> as I mentioned above is very much like the Earthan Beds Paul has shared on his site, but on a smaller scale. Wicking beds, another place to "borrow" ideas from. There is much innovative stuff happening all over the place, building on already proven concepts, nothing much new just adapting what is already out there.</p> Yes that makes a lot of sense…tag:aquaponicgardening.ning.com,2014-04-29:4778851:Comment:5603472014-04-29T20:44:32.143ZTony Lhttps://aquaponicgardening.ning.com/profile/TonyL
<p>Yes that makes a lot of sense and is very interesting. I guess I still don't follow why you are calling it a "fishless aquaponic system" (instead of calling it a "compartmentalized aquaponic system" or a "hydroponic system supplemented with aquaponic water") but that's not really important (except for getting your point across, because I can see many people confused by that but maybe it's just me). Are you saying it's the biofilter that makes it an AP system? Do other people have…</p>
<p>Yes that makes a lot of sense and is very interesting. I guess I still don't follow why you are calling it a "fishless aquaponic system" (instead of calling it a "compartmentalized aquaponic system" or a "hydroponic system supplemented with aquaponic water") but that's not really important (except for getting your point across, because I can see many people confused by that but maybe it's just me). Are you saying it's the biofilter that makes it an AP system? Do other people have "fishless ap systems" or is this your invention? I thought aquaponics meant it had fish (or other aquatic creatures) living in the system.</p>
<p>Looking forward to updates!</p>
<p><br/> <cite>Shaun Mavronicolas said:</cite></p>
<blockquote cite="http://community.theaquaponicsource.com/forum/topics/dual-root-zone-possible-for-ap?groupUrl=fish-less-systems&commentId=4778851%3AComment%3A560512&xg_source=msg_com_gr_forum#4778851Comment560512"><div><div class="xg_user_generated"><p>"Your system sounds really interesting, although I'm not quite sure I follow. You're saying you have separate systems and you use nutrients from the RAS for the AP system? Are there other creatures in the fishless AP system? If you have more info up about this and/or pics, please link."</p>
<p>I have not put anything online yet but will shortly.</p>
<p>The plant system is just that... a fishless aquaponics system. So it has a pump, filtration and most importantly a moving bed bio-filter. Yes, top up water comes from the fish side and I am busy setting up several airlift "tea brewers" that will act as mineralizing tanks - so these will breakdown the fish solids and anything else I want to throw in over about 35 days. I will allow the solids to settle out at the end and scoop out this water for my base nutrient. I will pH balance it to about 6.5 with calcium and potassium buffers over the 35 days for my fruiting plants (this is all I am growing in the plant only loop). I grow my leafy stuff in the RAS. I will have several of these going so I can add nutrients every few days to the main plant system. I will also have some non-aerated minerlaization tanks going for the option of gassing off the nitrates as nitrates in fruiting systems are not desirable in large amounts.</p>
<p>Hope that helps until the pictures appear in my album here.</p>
<p>Cheers.</p>
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</blockquote> "Your system sounds really in…tag:aquaponicgardening.ning.com,2014-04-29:4778851:Comment:5605122014-04-29T20:22:11.606ZShaun Mavronicolashttps://aquaponicgardening.ning.com/profile/ShaunMav
<p>"Your system sounds really interesting, although I'm not quite sure I follow. You're saying you have separate systems and you use nutrients from the RAS for the AP system? Are there other creatures in the fishless AP system? If you have more info up about this and/or pics, please link."</p>
<p>I have not put anything online yet but will shortly.</p>
<p>The plant system is just that... a fishless aquaponics system. So it has a pump, filtration and most importantly a moving bed bio-filter.…</p>
<p>"Your system sounds really interesting, although I'm not quite sure I follow. You're saying you have separate systems and you use nutrients from the RAS for the AP system? Are there other creatures in the fishless AP system? If you have more info up about this and/or pics, please link."</p>
<p>I have not put anything online yet but will shortly.</p>
<p>The plant system is just that... a fishless aquaponics system. So it has a pump, filtration and most importantly a moving bed bio-filter. Yes, top up water comes from the fish side and I am busy setting up several airlift "tea brewers" that will act as mineralizing tanks - so these will breakdown the fish solids and anything else I want to throw in over about 35 days. I will allow the solids to settle out at the end and scoop out this water for my base nutrient. I will pH balance it to about 6.5 with calcium and potassium buffers over the 35 days for my fruiting plants (this is all I am growing in the plant only loop). I grow my leafy stuff in the RAS. I will have several of these going so I can add nutrients every few days to the main plant system. I will also have some non-aerated minerlaization tanks going for the option of gassing off the nitrates as nitrates in fruiting systems are not desirable in large amounts.</p>
<p>Hope that helps until the pictures appear in my album here.</p>
<p>Cheers.</p> Shaun, okay, I will read up o…tag:aquaponicgardening.ning.com,2014-04-29:4778851:Comment:5605092014-04-29T18:57:46.108ZTony Lhttps://aquaponicgardening.ning.com/profile/TonyL
<p>Shaun, okay, I will read up on the vodka dosing but it's not something I'll try anytime soon. That's very interesting, I've scoured the boards so I'm a little surprised I haven't seen mention of that. Thanks a lot for explaining. Your system sounds really interesting, although I'm not quite sure I follow. You're saying you have separate systems and you use nutrients from the RAS for the AP system? Are there other creatures in the fishless AP system? If you have more info up about this…</p>
<p>Shaun, okay, I will read up on the vodka dosing but it's not something I'll try anytime soon. That's very interesting, I've scoured the boards so I'm a little surprised I haven't seen mention of that. Thanks a lot for explaining. Your system sounds really interesting, although I'm not quite sure I follow. You're saying you have separate systems and you use nutrients from the RAS for the AP system? Are there other creatures in the fishless AP system? If you have more info up about this and/or pics, please link.</p>
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<p>After reading this thread the other day I was wondering if people take water from their AP systems to supplement hydro systems.</p>
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<p>I got some blueberry plugs for cheap, I think I'll pot them up using the dual root method (might have to keep them in their own system due to ph requirements)<span style="font-size: 13px;">. </span></p>
<p></p> Tony, the "Nitrate issue" had…tag:aquaponicgardening.ning.com,2014-04-26:4778851:Comment:5597572014-04-26T21:16:37.884ZShaun Mavronicolashttps://aquaponicgardening.ning.com/profile/ShaunMav
<p>Tony, the "Nitrate issue" had to do with Vodka dosing and as Vlad has mentioned, DO NOT DO THIS unless you know what you are doing. If you want to learn more there is a lot of this stuff on the web, especially on forums about aquariums.</p>
<p>I have made a major change to my system, it is now split, so I have a RAS and a fishless aquaponic system. It has it's own growing pains but I hope to sort them out, should be possible and once it is sorted will be much better than having an aquaponic…</p>
<p>Tony, the "Nitrate issue" had to do with Vodka dosing and as Vlad has mentioned, DO NOT DO THIS unless you know what you are doing. If you want to learn more there is a lot of this stuff on the web, especially on forums about aquariums.</p>
<p>I have made a major change to my system, it is now split, so I have a RAS and a fishless aquaponic system. It has it's own growing pains but I hope to sort them out, should be possible and once it is sorted will be much better than having an aquaponic system with fish... where for me the fish production side is very important. Aquaponics where fish are part of the main loop is great if you don't expect much fish production (I am talking about a home backyard system). If you want the fish production AND the fruit/veg then you need to rethink the typical aquaponics approach.</p>
<p>So far, the taste of the few things we've been able to eat, cucumbers for now, are much sweeter and tastier than we've ever had from our fish based aquaponic system (2 seasons worth). We are growing using this dual root zone method, or you could look at it as a hybrid wicking bed setup. It is more work and takes more sorting out, that has been my experience so far, but if things continue to taste as good and I can work out some kinks, it's worth it. And, the fish side provides some of the fertilizer for this, and our soil garden, in a way that you can manage it. Good luck in doing so with the typical backyard AP system. Tried now for 3 years and while stuff grows, there are always a myriad of problems, and the taste of the food does not compare to soil or a hybrid system as I outlined above.</p>
<p>It is early days, 1st time growing this way, I will have better feedback at the end of season.</p>
<p>Cheers.</p> Ah...yes...now I remember. Th…tag:aquaponicgardening.ning.com,2014-04-26:4778851:Comment:5599412014-04-26T19:35:00.651ZVlad Jovanovichttps://aquaponicgardening.ning.com/profile/VladJovanovic
<p>Ah...yes...now I remember. The nitrate problem refers to Shaun's problem of having way too super high Nitrates in his system and his question of possible ways to lower nitrates without adding more grow-beds (no room) or having to get rid of any fish. And no, nothing is wrong with your browser...Shaun and I had carried over this topic from personal e-mails into this thread...</p>
<p>So if you have really high nitrates and can't add any more plants, or can't/don't want to get rid of many…</p>
<p>Ah...yes...now I remember. The nitrate problem refers to Shaun's problem of having way too super high Nitrates in his system and his question of possible ways to lower nitrates without adding more grow-beds (no room) or having to get rid of any fish. And no, nothing is wrong with your browser...Shaun and I had carried over this topic from personal e-mails into this thread...</p>
<p>So if you have really high nitrates and can't add any more plants, or can't/don't want to get rid of many fish...and are of diligent mind, capable of following precise directions and keeping it up for weeks at a time...and following through...then sure, I could send you those links etc...(I don't mean to sound all high-falutin' about it, it's just one of those process' that will have catastrophic consequences if not done properly).</p>
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<p>You can use any material that is fish/bacteria safe in which roots can grow through...or you can forgo the mechanical barrier altogether if you wish :)</p>