Do my air stones need to be at the bottom of my tank? - Aquaponic Gardening2024-03-29T01:21:29Zhttps://aquaponicgardening.ning.com/forum/topics/do-my-air-stones-need-to-be-at-the-bottom-of-my-tank?feed=yes&xn_auth=noHey Pete, that's quite a tank…tag:aquaponicgardening.ning.com,2013-03-08:4778851:Comment:4473512013-03-08T14:03:15.397ZGeorgehttps://aquaponicgardening.ning.com/profile/Geoge
<p>Hey Pete, that's quite a tank. Is it in the ground? Just curious. </p>
<p>Hey Pete, that's quite a tank. Is it in the ground? Just curious. </p> I use a diaphragm pump for ge…tag:aquaponicgardening.ning.com,2013-03-08:4778851:Comment:4471752013-03-08T14:02:33.986ZJim Fiskhttps://aquaponicgardening.ning.com/profile/JimFisk
<p>I use a diaphragm pump for general aeration everywhere from FTs to rafts and biofilters and a second leather piston pump to give the 2 trout tanks extra air. These small motor driven pumps have both volume and pressure resulting in a powerful column of air that rises from 20-24" air stones attached to the top of my slotted waste tubes at the center bottom of the 330 gal ibcs. This not only aerates the water but stirs the tanks heavily AND draws the waste right to the waste tubes located…</p>
<p>I use a diaphragm pump for general aeration everywhere from FTs to rafts and biofilters and a second leather piston pump to give the 2 trout tanks extra air. These small motor driven pumps have both volume and pressure resulting in a powerful column of air that rises from 20-24" air stones attached to the top of my slotted waste tubes at the center bottom of the 330 gal ibcs. This not only aerates the water but stirs the tanks heavily AND draws the waste right to the waste tubes located right under the air stones resulting in much less manual tank cleaning. (and the fish love playing in that current)</p>
<p>The only reason I use check valves on a few lines is to keep the water from saturating the stone and line when the air is off for some reason (like showing off the fish) and not having to wait for the water to clear before resuming aeration. More of an impatience thing. I want to see that air column before I walk away. Ck valves have far less effect on a positive displacement pump. My low pressure vane powered pond water pump on the other hand doesn't want to hear the word "check valve" if it results in any amount of back pressure.</p>
<p>I'm not sure there is any substitute on the market for the low pressure turbine pumps when it comes to large systems and ponds. The only way to increase pressure on a vane pump is to go to multi stages like on a vacuum cleaner or extreme high speed (very loud) like on an automobile supercharger or turbo charger. That is why they use vacuum cleaner pumps on Jecuzzi spas to get all that pressure and volume. They are generally brush motors though and not designed for 24/7 year round use to say the least.</p> It seems the idea about the g…tag:aquaponicgardening.ning.com,2013-03-08:4778851:Comment:4471132013-03-08T01:47:53.290ZSiggy Ghttps://aquaponicgardening.ning.com/profile/SiggyG
<p>It seems the idea about the gas exchange taking place at the surface is a common misconception. Here's an outtake from a <a href="http://community.theaquaponicsource.com/forum/topics/oxygen-utilization-by-plant-roots-in-hydroponic-raft-systems?commentId=4778851%3AComment%3A371031&xg_source=activity" target="_self">response in a different thread that dealt with aeration as well</a>.</p>
<blockquote><p>Any water/air interfaces will exchange gases. The exchange is governed by the partial…</p>
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<p>It seems the idea about the gas exchange taking place at the surface is a common misconception. Here's an outtake from a <a href="http://community.theaquaponicsource.com/forum/topics/oxygen-utilization-by-plant-roots-in-hydroponic-raft-systems?commentId=4778851%3AComment%3A371031&xg_source=activity" target="_self">response in a different thread that dealt with aeration as well</a>.</p>
<blockquote><p>Any water/air interfaces will exchange gases. The exchange is governed by the partial gas pressures within the air and the water and the surface area. They strive to balance. They strive to achieve saturation, which by the way is dependent on many factors including temperature and the mixture of gases in the bubble and the water. But the exchange goes both ways. If for example the water has a higher gas pressure from carbon dioxide than the air, the carbon dioxide from the water can also pass to the bubble. Smaller bubbles are better at getting the most out of your aerator. First off they have a greater surface area by volume and therefore can achieve equilibrium with the water faster. Secondly they rise slower. giving more time as well. All this together can lead to a small bubble starting it's journey upward with a relatively high concentration of oxygen and reaching the water surface the same size but with less oxygen and more Carbon Dioxide for example.</p>
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<p>And why do you need the check valves? If you locate the blower well above the water line they shouldn't be necessary.</p>
<p></p> Hey Pete, You may have to mak…tag:aquaponicgardening.ning.com,2013-03-03:4778851:Comment:4439322013-03-03T14:35:11.618ZJim Fiskhttps://aquaponicgardening.ning.com/profile/JimFisk
<p>Hey Pete, You may have to make your own zero back pressure check valves. I had to for my water line for the same reason. I did not want to reduce any flow forward at all but quick stop to any back flow. I shared it in a blog. Cost about 6.00 and works great:</p>
<p><a href="http://community.theaquaponicsource.com/profiles/blogs/making-a-zero-backpressure-check" target="_blank">http://community.theaquaponicsource.com/profiles/blogs/making-a-zero-backpressure-check</a><br></br> <br></br> <cite>Pete…</cite></p>
<p>Hey Pete, You may have to make your own zero back pressure check valves. I had to for my water line for the same reason. I did not want to reduce any flow forward at all but quick stop to any back flow. I shared it in a blog. Cost about 6.00 and works great:</p>
<p><a href="http://community.theaquaponicsource.com/profiles/blogs/making-a-zero-backpressure-check" target="_blank">http://community.theaquaponicsource.com/profiles/blogs/making-a-zero-backpressure-check</a><br/> <br/> <cite>Pete Schuhmann said:</cite></p>
<blockquote cite="http://community.theaquaponicsource.com/forum/topics/do-my-air-stones-need-to-be-at-the-bottom-of-my-tank#4778851Comment392962"><div><div class="xg_user_generated">Thanks for the responses. The problem ended up being the checkvalves I was using. The springs in the valves was causing resistence. As soon as i removed the check valve i was aable to get the airstones down where they need to be. I will be changing tovalves that go onthe intake side of the pump as opposed to the discharge side.</div>
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</blockquote> Hi all, When I built a recycl…tag:aquaponicgardening.ning.com,2013-03-02:4778851:Comment:4435382013-03-02T13:50:55.182ZJim Fiskhttps://aquaponicgardening.ning.com/profile/JimFisk
<p>Hi all, When I built a recycling toilet in the 70's we did a lot of work with ultrasonic air foggers and found that to be extremely effective. I still have some of those nozzles and keep thinking of applying them to our AP system. Micro bubbles released at the bottom of the tanks (looks like fog) might be your answer. The ultrasonic tip breaks the bubbles up into billions of bubbles. These nozzles typically come from the commercial oil burner arena. If they were used on home oil burners we…</p>
<p>Hi all, When I built a recycling toilet in the 70's we did a lot of work with ultrasonic air foggers and found that to be extremely effective. I still have some of those nozzles and keep thinking of applying them to our AP system. Micro bubbles released at the bottom of the tanks (looks like fog) might be your answer. The ultrasonic tip breaks the bubbles up into billions of bubbles. These nozzles typically come from the commercial oil burner arena. If they were used on home oil burners we could save a lot of oil. They would probably require a diaphragm pump which is what I use anyway as you don't run into the depth cut off problem associated with the turbine pumps you are using.</p>
<p>Also as far as I know it is the surface area of the bubbles and not the bubbles hitting the surface, that counts. Exposure is the issue with air or microbes.</p> I don't know. Now you're maki…tag:aquaponicgardening.ning.com,2013-02-27:4778851:Comment:4423402013-02-27T00:59:22.090ZAlex Veidelhttps://aquaponicgardening.ning.com/profile/AlexVeidel
<p>I don't know. Now you're making me think. I was so happy in my ignorance until you came along and had to ruin it for me :) I'm finding online sources that say both...Does anyone else knowledgeable on the subject of aeration have any input? (oh, and I was just teasin' George, its a good topic)<br></br> <br></br> <cite>George said:…</cite></p>
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<p>I don't know. Now you're making me think. I was so happy in my ignorance until you came along and had to ruin it for me :) I'm finding online sources that say both...Does anyone else knowledgeable on the subject of aeration have any input? (oh, and I was just teasin' George, its a good topic)<br/> <br/> <cite>George said:</cite></p>
<blockquote cite="http://community.theaquaponicsource.com/forum/topics/do-my-air-stones-need-to-be-at-the-bottom-of-my-tank#4778851Comment442044"><div><div class="xg_user_generated"><p>And that is likely a myth. There's a thread on the subject in the BYAP forum.<br/> <br/> <cite>Angelo Moscariello Basile said:</cite></p>
<blockquote cite="http://community.theaquaponicsource.com/forum/topics/do-my-air-stones-need-to-be-at-the-bottom-of-my-tank#4778851Comment441726"><div><div class="xg_user_generated"><p>Actually the exchange of air happens in the surface of the water and NOT between the bubble and the water as the bubble goes up.</p>
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</blockquote> As George said it may not mat…tag:aquaponicgardening.ning.com,2013-02-26:4778851:Comment:4420532013-02-26T14:36:38.712ZChris Carrhttps://aquaponicgardening.ning.com/profile/Chris954
<p>As George said it may not matter provided the water is being mix thoroughly with whatever other currents are in the tank. The air bubbles will lift some water up however and if it is at the bottom, it will be lifting a current of water from the bottom of the tank upwards causing some better mixing. It isn't actually going to deliver much oxygen to the bottom itself I wouldn't think.</p>
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<p>As for where exchange happens, last I checked bubbles have a large surface area. A ton of small…</p>
<p>As George said it may not matter provided the water is being mix thoroughly with whatever other currents are in the tank. The air bubbles will lift some water up however and if it is at the bottom, it will be lifting a current of water from the bottom of the tank upwards causing some better mixing. It isn't actually going to deliver much oxygen to the bottom itself I wouldn't think.</p>
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<p>As for where exchange happens, last I checked bubbles have a large surface area. A ton of small bubbles has a ton of surface area so I am sure that doesn't hurt either in addition to the tanks suface. Disrupting the tanks surface as they break is a win win.</p> Is it critical that the air…tag:aquaponicgardening.ning.com,2013-02-26:4778851:Comment:4417862013-02-26T11:52:11.381ZGeorgehttps://aquaponicgardening.ning.com/profile/Geoge
<p><em> Is it critical that the air stones be near the bottom?</em></p>
<p>It may not matter, so long as your tank water is being thoroughly exchanged/mixed. You wouldn't want to have less oxygen at the bottom, for example. I don't use air stones at all but a lot of splashing takes place in my system and the intake for my pump is at the bottom of the tank and the water rotates, so there is a lot of mixing. </p>
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<p><em> Is it critical that the air stones be near the bottom?</em></p>
<p>It may not matter, so long as your tank water is being thoroughly exchanged/mixed. You wouldn't want to have less oxygen at the bottom, for example. I don't use air stones at all but a lot of splashing takes place in my system and the intake for my pump is at the bottom of the tank and the water rotates, so there is a lot of mixing. </p>
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<p></p> And that is likely a myth. T…tag:aquaponicgardening.ning.com,2013-02-26:4778851:Comment:4420442013-02-26T11:46:12.105ZGeorgehttps://aquaponicgardening.ning.com/profile/Geoge
<p>And that is likely a myth. There's a thread on the subject in the BYAP forum.<br/> <br/> <cite>Angelo Moscariello Basile said:</cite></p>
<blockquote cite="http://community.theaquaponicsource.com/forum/topics/do-my-air-stones-need-to-be-at-the-bottom-of-my-tank#4778851Comment441726"><div><div class="xg_user_generated"><p>Actually the exchange of air happens in the surface of the water and NOT between the bubble and the water as the bubble goes up.</p>
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<p>And that is likely a myth. There's a thread on the subject in the BYAP forum.<br/> <br/> <cite>Angelo Moscariello Basile said:</cite></p>
<blockquote cite="http://community.theaquaponicsource.com/forum/topics/do-my-air-stones-need-to-be-at-the-bottom-of-my-tank#4778851Comment441726"><div><div class="xg_user_generated"><p>Actually the exchange of air happens in the surface of the water and NOT between the bubble and the water as the bubble goes up.</p>
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</blockquote> Yup at the surface.tag:aquaponicgardening.ning.com,2013-02-26:4778851:Comment:4419182013-02-26T02:21:28.464ZFarcry305https://aquaponicgardening.ning.com/profile/FrankEly
<p>Yup at the surface.</p>
<p>Yup at the surface.</p>