Design numbers - Aquaponic Gardening2024-03-28T21:41:36Zhttps://aquaponicgardening.ning.com/forum/topics/design-numbers?commentId=4778851%3AComment%3A19862&feed=yes&xn_auth=noKate Mink said:Imperial or Am…tag:aquaponicgardening.ning.com,2010-11-08:4778851:Comment:206482010-11-08T18:25:58.000ZTCLynxhttps://aquaponicgardening.ning.com/profile/TCLynx
<cite>Kate Mink said:</cite><blockquote cite="http://aquaponicscommunity.com/forum/topics/design-numbers?x=1&id=4778851%3ATopic%3A1101&page=4#4778851Comment20103"><div>Imperial or American? The gallons aren't the same. I don't see a units note in the spreadsheet I downloaded from your Imperial calculator link.<br/> <br/></div>
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Through Sylvia I got the info that he was using US gallons for the imperial calculator.
<cite>Kate Mink said:</cite><blockquote cite="http://aquaponicscommunity.com/forum/topics/design-numbers?x=1&id=4778851%3ATopic%3A1101&page=4#4778851Comment20103"><div>Imperial or American? The gallons aren't the same. I don't see a units note in the spreadsheet I downloaded from your Imperial calculator link.<br/> <br/></div>
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Through Sylvia I got the info that he was using US gallons for the imperial calculator. Now over to the question of s…tag:aquaponicgardening.ning.com,2010-11-07:4778851:Comment:204802010-11-07T13:20:49.000ZTCLynxhttps://aquaponicgardening.ning.com/profile/TCLynx
Now over to the question of shallow grow beds.<br></br>
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I personally don't really recommend them for most situations.<br></br>
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I have done a 4' by 8' and 6 inch deep grow bed before. I found it very difficult to control the flood and drain of it using siphons. Just not enough leeway either side since siphons will normally leave a little water in the bottom of a bed and you want to leave the top inch or so of gravel dry, that doesn't give much space for rise and fall and makes it even easier…
Now over to the question of shallow grow beds.<br/>
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I personally don't really recommend them for most situations.<br/>
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I have done a 4' by 8' and 6 inch deep grow bed before. I found it very difficult to control the flood and drain of it using siphons. Just not enough leeway either side since siphons will normally leave a little water in the bottom of a bed and you want to leave the top inch or so of gravel dry, that doesn't give much space for rise and fall and makes it even easier for the siphon to suck air before it's time. It probably can be done with a siphon but I would advise larger media for it to keep the flow through the gravel faster.<br/>
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Later I changed things around with that shallow bed and tied it in with the FLOUT of the neighboring bed. Since the neighboring bed was deeper, the shallow bed was able to drain down a little better with the "external flout" but the drain down was still hindered by constant inflow and the flow rate through the gravel.<br/>
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If one were to feel compelled to use a shallow bed, then I would say follow Rupe's advice and use a distrobution grid and used timed flood and drain to feed the beds. I generally don't like these as they seem an excess use of materials that needs regular cleaning, however, I do have some beds that are getting a bit root bound because I planted huge bananas in them (they are still 12" deep in the center), for those beds, a distrobution grid might be needed to avoid the flooding over the gravel problem if I don't remove the banana plants (I promise I thought they were supposed to be dwarf!!!!! The catalog said 4' tall fruiting plants and the picture in the catalog showed something in a 3 gallon pot indoors! Apparently Aquaponics changes things.)<br/>
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Anyway, my solution if one finds that deep grow beds are not growing enough plants to take care of the nitrogen, then it is pretty easy to add on some other means of growing plants to supplement the gravel. My system has some NFT pipes being fed water that was already filtered by the gravel beds, I also have some Zip grow towers running, I'm now in the process of adding a raft bed to see what I think of growing that way.<br />
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Now I will admit that currently I have about 350 gallons worth of barrel cut long ways type beds, these are 12" deep in the center and shallower to the outsides. Those beds get fed filtered water and are like timed flood and drain. I have 3 more even shallower beds, 7 inches deep that are fed a constant stream of filtered water and are constant flood growing water chestnuts and other water plants. This final use of a shallow bed I'm liking so far but still want to test out some different media for it. As to the tool and the low ra…tag:aquaponicgardening.ning.com,2010-11-07:4778851:Comment:204792010-11-07T13:07:57.000ZTCLynxhttps://aquaponicgardening.ning.com/profile/TCLynx
As to the tool and the low rating. I'll admit, I'm not as fluent with metric and I therefore tested out the Imperial version. The lack of clarity (about which gallons are in use) and the notes being given in a mix of metric and imperial probably played a role in the low rating I gave it.<br />
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I can see where this would be a useful tool for designing more complex systems where you are keeping closer track of fish weight and exact feed % and I do like the redundancy when you are talking about systems…
As to the tool and the low rating. I'll admit, I'm not as fluent with metric and I therefore tested out the Imperial version. The lack of clarity (about which gallons are in use) and the notes being given in a mix of metric and imperial probably played a role in the low rating I gave it.<br />
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I can see where this would be a useful tool for designing more complex systems where you are keeping closer track of fish weight and exact feed % and I do like the redundancy when you are talking about systems where they are likely to push the limits.<br />
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Seeing as I'm not running with ammonia or nitrite levels showing, I don't think that I'm pushing the limits that much, I can shut off the air pump during hot weather and even after hours the dissolved oxygen levels were still fine in the fish tank. I would have expected to see the tool show that my system was at least close to reasonable. However, apparently since the 30 cm deep grow bed is the standard, that is the depth the tool applied and extrapolated that to square surface area instead of volume for the solids mineralization. I don't think that one was actually based on any trials of deep vs shallow grow beds, just the assumption that the mineralization mostly takes place the the top few inches based on soil studies.<br />
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Sorry, the tool needs some improvements, at least some clarification on the gallons used and the notes on the imperial tool should be converted to imperial to help it make more sense before I'm likely to give it a higher rating. My system is known to me in gallons so trying to convert that into metric and square meters just isn't that easy since most of my beds are not rectangular and they are mostly deeper than 30 cm. Yep theoretically possible...…tag:aquaponicgardening.ning.com,2010-11-07:4778851:Comment:204752010-11-07T07:52:50.000ZRupertofOZhttps://aquaponicgardening.ning.com/profile/RupertofOZ
Yep theoretically possible... but Kobus has already highlighted some of the "cons" ... like physical footprint...<br></br>
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If you were to elevate large area beds, there's also the cost... and the pysical limitation of accessability to harvest and plant...<br></br>
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More problematic is the question of root growth... where some plant types develope extensive root systems that in shallower beds can result in the flood level rising above the media level...<br></br>
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This is also likely to be…
Yep theoretically possible... but Kobus has already highlighted some of the "cons" ... like physical footprint...<br/>
<br/>
If you were to elevate large area beds, there's also the cost... and the pysical limitation of accessability to harvest and plant...<br/>
<br/>
More problematic is the question of root growth... where some plant types develope extensive root systems that in shallower beds can result in the flood level rising above the media level...<br/>
<br/>
This is also likely to be true with a greater amount of plants in itself....<br/>
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Also... a large shallow bed... IMO.... would require a distribution grid, rather than a singular water input...<br />
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The heating/cooling aspect of shallow beds that Kobus outlines... is a significant point to take into consideration... as is the possibility of increased evaporation...<br/>
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<cite>Kobus Jooste said:</cite><blockquote cite="http://aquaponicscommunity.com/forum/topics/design-numbers?commentId=4778851%3AComment%3A20464&xg_source=msg_com_forum#4778851Comment20474"><div>While I remain a fan of not going too shallow (25 - 30 cm) on gravel beds due to the logistics and cost of building a big shallow one versus a deeper one, in theory, I see no problem with what you say. If you look at some rotating drum designs foor aquaculture, the media surface area is thin and extensive, while other designs are cylindrical. More than one way to skin a cat. You could get lots of heat gain / loss pout of a shallow extensive bed though. As long as you have the surface area and volume for nitrification and mineralization to take place, I think you have some leeway with how you package it. Look at DWC vs NFT. Plant roots in water taken to two extremes, and both works. From a system footprint, material cost and potential heat trap/sink point of view though, I see sense in the 12 inch deep bed theory. I must also admit that I am not 100% sure on the mineralisation effect that may be influenced by beds of different depths, only that to a certain decrease in depth, you will most likely decrease the risk of having an anoxic layer developing at the bottom of a bed over time.<br/><br/><cite>Tony Tarantino said:</cite><blockquote cite="http://aquaponicscommunity.com/forum/topics/design-numbers?commentId=4778851%3AComment%3A20472&xg_source=activity#4778851Comment20472"><div><br/>So using a grow bed less than 12 inches deep should not matter as long as you make the grow bed larger in length and width. For example having a grow bed that is 2ft wide x 4ft length and a 1ft deep would be the same as having a grow bed 2ft wide x 8ft length and 6inches deep, and could then allow for more plants <br/><cite>RupertofOZ said:</cite><blockquote cite="http://aquaponicscommunity.com/forum/topics/design-numbers?xg_source=activity&id=4778851%3ATopic%3A1101&page=5#4778851Comment20469"><div>TCL, the capacity required for bio-filtration, nitrification, mineralisation and even oxygenation acheived through flood & drain... has always been greater than the nutrient requirment of plants...<br/><br/>And again, the tool is based on Wilson Lennards initial thesis work... without worms...<br/><br/>The extra mineralisation and breakdown of solids... with worms.... allows for increased plant production....<br/><br/>Coindidently, the degree of capacity for proper mineralisation and nitrification... translates into increased surface area for planting....<br/><br/>That's one of the reasons the whole arguement for shallow vs deeper grow beds... and/or grow beds becoming clogged... is a nonsense and myth.... unless qualified by increased surface area...<br/><br/>You can see the effect of this with the recent trend toward system that have doubled the stocking density of fish... and/or halved the suggested grow bed ratio to 1:1....<br/><br/>They always exist on a knife edge of filtration.... more particularly oxygenation... especially when temperatures, growth and feed rates are rising....<br/><br/>It's not uncommon to see such systems where both the stocking density has been doubled, and the ratio halved... with residual ammonia and nitrite readings... and high (relatively) nitrate readings... without the ability to address either situation...<br/><br/>IMO, and I've consistantly stated it ... 30 kg / 1000L is a maximum stocking rate... Tilapia are an exception.... with a 2:1 grow bed : fish tank ratio...<br/><br/>30kg/1000L... or more correctly 30kg/1000m3 ... is considered a medium/high stocking rate in RAS... and about the extent to which passive aeration methods can provide sufficient oxygenation for all system requirements...<br/><br/>Anything else... is a potential disaster waiting to happen...<br/><br/>The tool may not be perfect and worthy of five stars... and has some basic assumptions, well known in aquaculture, behind the formulas applied... but it is a good starting point... and deserves better than the one star rating you gave it....<br/><br/>P.S ... the tool, and evaluation of the BYAP kit systems utilising the tool... were listed on BYAP before any where else... although the latter may not have been publically released... <br/><br/><cite>TCLynx said:</cite><blockquote cite="http://aquaponicscommunity.com/forum/topics/design-numbers?commentId=4778851%3AComment%3A20444&xg_source=msg_com_forum#4778851Comment20444"><div>This tool has also made it over to the BYAP site as well.<br/>Seems that in their solids calculations, worms are not taken into account. So perhaps the fact that my system actually functions at all, might be at least partially due to the hand full of worms I added to each bed as I started them up.<br/><br/>I find it interesting that the tool says I need more square footage to take care of the solids than I need plants to take care of the nutrients while my experience with my system with worms in it seems to push the other way around. I'm gonna test out a big raft bed to see if adding more plant square footage will get my nutrient levels down though heading into winter without a greenhouse will probably slow feeding to the point that nutrients will be down anyway.</div>
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</blockquote> So using a grow bed less than…tag:aquaponicgardening.ning.com,2010-11-07:4778851:Comment:204722010-11-07T07:10:15.000ZTony Tarantinohttps://aquaponicgardening.ning.com/profile/TonyTarantino
<br></br>So using a grow bed less than 12 inches deep should not matter as long as you make the grow bed larger in length and width. For example having a grow bed that is 2ft wide x 4ft length and a 1ft deep would be the same as having a grow bed 2ft wide x 8ft length and 6inches deep, and could then allow for more plants
<br></br>
<cite>RupertofOZ said:…</cite>
<br/>So using a grow bed less than 12 inches deep should not matter as long as you make the grow bed larger in length and width. For example having a grow bed that is 2ft wide x 4ft length and a 1ft deep would be the same as having a grow bed 2ft wide x 8ft length and 6inches deep, and could then allow for more plants
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<cite>RupertofOZ said:</cite><blockquote cite="http://aquaponicscommunity.com/forum/topics/design-numbers?xg_source=activity&id=4778851%3ATopic%3A1101&page=5#4778851Comment20469"><div>TCL, the capacity required for bio-filtration, nitrification, mineralisation and even oxygenation acheived through flood & drain... has always been greater than the nutrient requirment of plants...<br/> <br/>
And again, the tool is based on Wilson Lennards initial thesis work... without worms...<br/>
<br/>
The extra mineralisation and breakdown of solids... with worms.... allows for increased plant production....<br/>
<br/>
Coindidently, the degree of capacity for proper mineralisation and nitrification... translates into increased surface area for planting....<br/>
<br/>
That's one of the reasons the whole arguement for shallow vs deeper grow beds... and/or grow beds becoming clogged... is a nonsense and myth.... unless qualified by increased surface area...<br/>
<br/>
You can see the effect of this with the recent trend toward system that have doubled the stocking density of fish... and/or halved the suggested grow bed ratio to 1:1....<br/>
<br/>
They always exist on a knife edge of filtration.... more particularly oxygenation... especially when temperatures, growth and feed rates are rising....<br/>
<br/>
It's not uncommon to see such systems where both the stocking density has been doubled, and the ratio halved... with residual ammonia and nitrite readings... and high (relatively) nitrate readings... without the ability to address either situation...<br/>
<br/>
IMO, and I've consistantly stated it ... 30 kg / 1000L is a maximum stocking rate... Tilapia are an exception.... with a 2:1 grow bed : fish tank ratio...<br/>
<br/>
30kg/1000L... or more correctly 30kg/1000m3 ... is considered a medium/high stocking rate in RAS... and about the extent to which passive aeration methods can provide sufficient oxygenation for all system requirements...<br/>
<br/>
Anything else... is a potential disaster waiting to happen...<br/>
<br/>
The tool may not be perfect and worthy of five stars... and has some basic assumptions, well known in aquaculture, behind the formulas applied... but it is a good starting point... and deserves better than the one star rating you gave it....<br/>
<br/>
P.S ... the tool, and evaluation of the BYAP kit systems utilising the tool... were listed on BYAP before any where else... although the latter may not have been publically released... <br/>
<br/>
<cite>TCLynx said:</cite><blockquote cite="http://aquaponicscommunity.com/forum/topics/design-numbers?commentId=4778851%3AComment%3A20444&xg_source=msg_com_forum#4778851Comment20444"><div>This tool has also made it over to the BYAP site as well.<br/>Seems that in their solids calculations, worms are not taken into account. So perhaps the fact that my system actually functions at all, might be at least partially due to the hand full of worms I added to each bed as I started them up.<br/><br/>I find it interesting that the tool says I need more square footage to take care of the solids than I need plants to take care of the nutrients while my experience with my system with worms in it seems to push the other way around. I'm gonna test out a big raft bed to see if adding more plant square footage will get my nutrient levels down though heading into winter without a greenhouse will probably slow feeding to the point that nutrients will be down anyway.</div>
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</blockquote> TCL, the capacity required fo…tag:aquaponicgardening.ning.com,2010-11-07:4778851:Comment:204692010-11-07T06:22:19.000ZRupertofOZhttps://aquaponicgardening.ning.com/profile/RupertofOZ
TCL, the capacity required for bio-filtration, nitrification, mineralisation and even oxygenation acheived through flood & drain... has always been greater than the nutrient requirment of plants...<br></br>
<br></br>
And again, the tool is based on Wilson Lennards initial thesis work... without worms...<br></br>
<br></br>
The extra mineralisation and breakdown of solids... with worms.... allows for increased plant production....<br></br>
<br></br>
Coindidently, the degree of capacity for proper mineralisation and…
TCL, the capacity required for bio-filtration, nitrification, mineralisation and even oxygenation acheived through flood & drain... has always been greater than the nutrient requirment of plants...<br/>
<br/>
And again, the tool is based on Wilson Lennards initial thesis work... without worms...<br/>
<br/>
The extra mineralisation and breakdown of solids... with worms.... allows for increased plant production....<br/>
<br/>
Coindidently, the degree of capacity for proper mineralisation and nitrification... translates into increased surface area for planting....<br/>
<br/>
That's one of the reasons the whole arguement for shallow vs deeper grow beds... and/or grow beds becoming clogged... is a nonsense and myth.... unless qualified by increased surface area...<br/>
<br/>
You can see the effect of this with the recent trend toward system that have doubled the stocking density of fish... and/or halved the suggested grow bed ratio to 1:1....<br/>
<br/>
They always exist on a knife edge of filtration.... more particularly oxygenation... especially when temperatures, growth and feed rates are rising....<br/>
<br/>
It's not uncommon to see such systems where both the stocking density has been doubled, and the ratio halved... with residual ammonia and nitrite readings... and high (relatively) nitrate readings... without the ability to address either situation...<br/>
<br/>
IMO, and I've consistantly stated it ... 30 kg / 1000L is a maximum stocking rate... Tilapia are an exception.... with a 2:1 grow bed : fish tank ratio...<br/>
<br/>
30kg/1000L... or more correctly 30kg/1000m3 ... is considered a medium/high stocking rate in RAS... and about the extent to which passive aeration methods can provide sufficient oxygenation for all system requirements...<br/>
<br/>
Anything else... is a potential disaster waiting to happen...<br />
<br />
The tool may not be perfect and worthy of five stars... and has some basic assumptions, well known in aquaculture, behind the formulas applied... but it is a good starting point... and deserves better than the one star rating you gave it....<br />
<br />
P.S ... the tool, and evaluation of the BYAP kit systems utilising the tool... were listed on BYAP before any where else... although the latter may not have been publically released... <br/>
<br/>
<cite>TCLynx said:</cite><blockquote cite="http://aquaponicscommunity.com/forum/topics/design-numbers?commentId=4778851%3AComment%3A20444&xg_source=msg_com_forum#4778851Comment20444"><div>This tool has also made it over to the BYAP site as well.<br/>Seems that in their solids calculations, worms are not taken into account. So perhaps the fact that my system actually functions at all, might be at least partially due to the hand full of worms I added to each bed as I started them up.<br/><br/>I find it interesting that the tool says I need more square footage to take care of the solids than I need plants to take care of the nutrients while my experience with my system with worms in it seems to push the other way around. I'm gonna test out a big raft bed to see if adding more plant square footage will get my nutrient levels down though heading into winter without a greenhouse will probably slow feeding to the point that nutrients will be down anyway.</div>
</blockquote> thanks TC....I really dont kn…tag:aquaponicgardening.ning.com,2010-11-07:4778851:Comment:204612010-11-07T04:03:52.000ZDarryl Hinsonhttps://aquaponicgardening.ning.com/profile/DarrylHinson
thanks TC....I really dont know exactly where to go from here....My gravel is in the beds and its a pain to get to the siphon bottom....I might modify it a bit......I feel like this entire way of growing is uncharted waters.......I may be wrong but my take on this stuff at the backyard level is done by a bunch of do it yourselfers (me included) and a lot ot trial and error.....no 2 systems appear to be the same....unless I buy a ready made system, which I cant afford....so I'm dealing with…
thanks TC....I really dont know exactly where to go from here....My gravel is in the beds and its a pain to get to the siphon bottom....I might modify it a bit......I feel like this entire way of growing is uncharted waters.......I may be wrong but my take on this stuff at the backyard level is done by a bunch of do it yourselfers (me included) and a lot ot trial and error.....no 2 systems appear to be the same....unless I buy a ready made system, which I cant afford....so I'm dealing with barrels that I got for free and a bunch of pvc at the local hardware store.....and many hours on the internet trying NOT to reinvent the wheel....I thought I'd be a little farther down the road by now....not giving up though....<br />
Darryl Siphons can be a bit of a cha…tag:aquaponicgardening.ning.com,2010-11-07:4778851:Comment:204592010-11-07T03:08:33.000ZTCLynxhttps://aquaponicgardening.ning.com/profile/TCLynx
Siphons can be a bit of a challenge in barrels cut the long ways seeing as the varrying volume by height makes getting the flow rates perfectly balanced with the siphon even more challenging.<br />
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Sounds like you are trying a bell siphon. It also sounds as if you have an air lock at the bottom which is causing your bell to float up am I right? I've seen some people manage this problem by adding a brick to hold it in place or something of the sort but that might not be the right answer.<br />
<br />
Anyway,…
Siphons can be a bit of a challenge in barrels cut the long ways seeing as the varrying volume by height makes getting the flow rates perfectly balanced with the siphon even more challenging.<br />
<br />
Sounds like you are trying a bell siphon. It also sounds as if you have an air lock at the bottom which is causing your bell to float up am I right? I've seen some people manage this problem by adding a brick to hold it in place or something of the sort but that might not be the right answer.<br />
<br />
Anyway, perhaps your inner stand pipe is too tall if you are having one of the barrels overflowing.<br />
<br />
some description of what happens with the drain pipe down below the barrels might help here.<br />
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You might also do a search for Affnan since he has done a modification to the basic bell siphon which seems to help many people get the siphons operating better over a wider range of inflows.<br />
<br />
Anyway, if you can adjust your drain pipes so the water has an easier time pushing the air down the pipe rather than causing it to float up, you might have a better chance of getting your siphons to start without intervention. Having the bottoms drain freely rather than having a closed small pipe going up and down causing air locks will probably help.<br />
There is a link to a Useful Diagrams thread on my Group page which may have some helpful pictures for you.<br />
<a href="http://aquaponicscommunity.com/group/tclynx">Look for Useful Diagrams Thread Link</a><br />
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<cite>Darryl Hinson said:</cite><blockquote cite="http://aquaponicscommunity.com/forum/topics/design-numbers?commentId=4778851%3AComment%3A20446&xg_source=msg_com_forum#4778851Comment20446"><div>Hello All:<br/> I'm looking for a solution or tip on how to gain some confidence with my barrel system....my barrels are, of course, curved at the bottom and my siphon cover pipe is flat....i could round it out but that doesnt seem like a good fix....one of my barrel fills up and runs over the top..(plenty of water coming in)....and when I push down on the cover pipe, the siphon will start.....it seems to be leaking at the bottom....not air...but it's not sealing and not allowing a negative pressure to build in the top of my cover tube......no rocks or any obstructions down in the pipe.<br/>
I have a washer down there.....any suggestions..for amyone....I know there are a few barrel systems out there...<br/>
Darryl</div>
</blockquote> Hello All:
I'm looking for a…tag:aquaponicgardening.ning.com,2010-11-07:4778851:Comment:204462010-11-07T02:34:33.000ZDarryl Hinsonhttps://aquaponicgardening.ning.com/profile/DarrylHinson
Hello All:<br />
I'm looking for a solution or tip on how to gain some confidence with my barrel system....my barrels are, of course, curved at the bottom and my siphon cover pipe is flat....i could round it out but that doesnt seem like a good fix....one of my barrel fills up and runs over the top..(plenty of water coming in)....and when I push down on the cover pipe, the siphon will start.....it seems to be leaking at the bottom....not air...but it's not sealing and not allowing a negative pressure…
Hello All:<br />
I'm looking for a solution or tip on how to gain some confidence with my barrel system....my barrels are, of course, curved at the bottom and my siphon cover pipe is flat....i could round it out but that doesnt seem like a good fix....one of my barrel fills up and runs over the top..(plenty of water coming in)....and when I push down on the cover pipe, the siphon will start.....it seems to be leaking at the bottom....not air...but it's not sealing and not allowing a negative pressure to build in the top of my cover tube......no rocks or any obstructions down in the pipe.<br />
I have a washer down there.....any suggestions..for amyone....I know there are a few barrel systems out there...<br />
Darryl This tool has also made it ov…tag:aquaponicgardening.ning.com,2010-11-07:4778851:Comment:204442010-11-07T01:39:08.000ZTCLynxhttps://aquaponicgardening.ning.com/profile/TCLynx
This tool has also made it over to the BYAP site as well.<br />
Seems that in their solids calculations, worms are not taken into account. So perhaps the fact that my system actually functions at all, might be at least partially due to the hand full of worms I added to each bed as I started them up.<br />
<br />
I find it interesting that the tool says I need more square footage to take care of the solids than I need plants to take care of the nutrients while my experience with my system with worms in it seems…
This tool has also made it over to the BYAP site as well.<br />
Seems that in their solids calculations, worms are not taken into account. So perhaps the fact that my system actually functions at all, might be at least partially due to the hand full of worms I added to each bed as I started them up.<br />
<br />
I find it interesting that the tool says I need more square footage to take care of the solids than I need plants to take care of the nutrients while my experience with my system with worms in it seems to push the other way around. I'm gonna test out a big raft bed to see if adding more plant square footage will get my nutrient levels down though heading into winter without a greenhouse will probably slow feeding to the point that nutrients will be down anyway.