Credit to other aquapons. - Aquaponic Gardening2024-03-29T15:59:31Zhttps://aquaponicgardening.ning.com/forum/topics/credit-to-other-aquapons?commentId=4778851%3AComment%3A157327&feed=yes&xn_auth=noThanks- Frank! You have enlig…tag:aquaponicgardening.ning.com,2011-08-05:4778851:Comment:1711532011-08-05T16:10:45.958ZGrowzayhttps://aquaponicgardening.ning.com/profile/JGrowzayGerard
Thanks- Frank! You have enlightened me in so many ways on this subject!! I like the last paragraph- especially lines 4-7!!
Thanks- Frank! You have enlightened me in so many ways on this subject!! I like the last paragraph- especially lines 4-7!! Agreed regarding Nelson and P…tag:aquaponicgardening.ning.com,2011-08-05:4778851:Comment:1711232011-08-05T14:08:52.795ZGina Cavalierohttps://aquaponicgardening.ning.com/profile/GinaCavaliero
Agreed regarding Nelson and Pade's contributions to the industry. I was merely pointing out that it was interesting that they are going to patent their newest system, whereas they have never previously sought a patent for their others. There must be something quite unique about this one. It is supposed to double vegetable production yields over previous UVI type systens and minimize waste removal but the literature doesn't go into much more detail. I didn't know Nate was pursuing a patent…
Agreed regarding Nelson and Pade's contributions to the industry. I was merely pointing out that it was interesting that they are going to patent their newest system, whereas they have never previously sought a patent for their others. There must be something quite unique about this one. It is supposed to double vegetable production yields over previous UVI type systens and minimize waste removal but the literature doesn't go into much more detail. I didn't know Nate was pursuing a patent either. Nelson & Pade are pioneer…tag:aquaponicgardening.ning.com,2011-08-05:4778851:Comment:1711152011-08-05T13:00:04.967ZFrank De Block-Burij (hygicell)https://aquaponicgardening.ning.com/profile/FrankDeBlockBurij
<p>Nelson & Pade are pioneers and to my opinion absolutely above suspicion</p>
<p>I am very interested in the contents of their patent, but as far as I can see it has not been published yet</p>
<p>look at the shady websites thread for somebody who is attempting to patent all in aquaponics:…</p>
<p>Nelson & Pade are pioneers and to my opinion absolutely above suspicion</p>
<p>I am very interested in the contents of their patent, but as far as I can see it has not been published yet</p>
<p>look at the shady websites thread for somebody who is attempting to patent all in aquaponics: <a href="http://aquaponicscommunity.com/forum/topics/shady-web-sites?groupUrl=thegoodthebadandtheugly&groupId=4778851%3AGroup%3A31154&id=4778851%3ATopic%3A165401&page=2#comments" target="_blank">http://aquaponicscommunity.com/forum/topics/shady-web-sites?groupUrl=thegoodthebadandtheugly&groupId=4778851%3AGroup%3A31154&id=4778851%3ATopic%3A165401&page=2#comments</a></p>
<p>Frank</p> Perhaps it has some patentabl…tag:aquaponicgardening.ning.com,2011-08-05:4778851:Comment:1711142011-08-05T12:55:20.194ZTCLynxhttps://aquaponicgardening.ning.com/profile/TCLynx
Perhaps it has some patentable components. Nate's Zipgrow towers are pat pend<br/>
Perhaps it has some patentable components. Nate's Zipgrow towers are pat pend<br/> Great perspective Frank! Int…tag:aquaponicgardening.ning.com,2011-08-05:4778851:Comment:1710312011-08-05T12:32:34.928ZGina Cavalierohttps://aquaponicgardening.ning.com/profile/GinaCavaliero
Great perspective Frank! Interestingly, I just noticed in Nelson and Pade's newsletter where they announced their newest system that it said Patent Pending. I wonder if this will be the first in the industry.
Great perspective Frank! Interestingly, I just noticed in Nelson and Pade's newsletter where they announced their newest system that it said Patent Pending. I wonder if this will be the first in the industry. exactly, Kobus
the basic pate…tag:aquaponicgardening.ning.com,2011-08-05:4778851:Comment:1710242011-08-05T09:52:25.793ZFrank De Block-Burij (hygicell)https://aquaponicgardening.ning.com/profile/FrankDeBlockBurij
<p>exactly, Kobus</p>
<p>the basic patent application is a simple and cheap procedure and provides at least temporary protection</p>
<p>so is protection of models, trademark and logo cheap, simple and easy (but most probably stronger)</p>
<p>just go for these, then relax, just try to do some honest business, build up a reputation and don't worry too much about competition: sooner or later they will inevitably be there, and especially now with the Internet, it will be sooner</p>
<p>spending time…</p>
<p>exactly, Kobus</p>
<p>the basic patent application is a simple and cheap procedure and provides at least temporary protection</p>
<p>so is protection of models, trademark and logo cheap, simple and easy (but most probably stronger)</p>
<p>just go for these, then relax, just try to do some honest business, build up a reputation and don't worry too much about competition: sooner or later they will inevitably be there, and especially now with the Internet, it will be sooner</p>
<p>spending time and resources into battling the potential competition will only drive you further away from your ultimate goal: making money</p>
<p>that is how far I would advise any one to go unless you wish to ambitiously conquer the world AND are prepared to invest a fortune (AND have a fortune available)</p>
<p>this is the road I would and will choose from now on</p>
<p>Frank</p>
<p> </p> Lots of experience talking th…tag:aquaponicgardening.ning.com,2011-08-05:4778851:Comment:1710232011-08-05T09:29:59.012ZKobus Joostehttps://aquaponicgardening.ning.com/profile/KobusJooste
<p>Lots of experience talking there Frank?</p>
<p> </p>
<p>I have walked down a similar path, and while I may have been the "negative" one in this discussion, much of what you say here boils down to my own thoughts and experience. I will add one thing:</p>
<p>IF you have a good idea, and you have not told anyone about it, you wil have to spend a HUGE amount of money protecting the idea long before you know anything about the commercial applicability of the product and how much, if any, you…</p>
<p>Lots of experience talking there Frank?</p>
<p> </p>
<p>I have walked down a similar path, and while I may have been the "negative" one in this discussion, much of what you say here boils down to my own thoughts and experience. I will add one thing:</p>
<p>IF you have a good idea, and you have not told anyone about it, you wil have to spend a HUGE amount of money protecting the idea long before you know anything about the commercial applicability of the product and how much, if any, you will make with it. Apart from the provisionary patent filing, if you need components developed for a prototype, you have to make everyone in the process sign a Non-disclosure agreement. To make your design less likely to be copied, some people advise that you make it "fancy", needing a lot of tooling developed to manufacture it. 8 Years ago I developed an aquaculture product that is the size of a diningroom table. The rough prototype is standing in my garage as the "fancy" design will cost millions to develop the tooling for. </p>
<p> </p>
<p>Now you have filed the patent, developed the tooling, made the prototype, filed for more advanced patent protection, done the world-wide patent searches..................... and you have not made one cent. This is where you are at your most vulnerable - you hold a patent, are about broke, do not have a buyer or a licensed manufacturer, and someone walks of and copies what you have done because you are showing it to potential investors.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>The bottom line is patents are like warfare. You do not own one if you are not in the mood, and capable, of going into a battle! In aquaponics, where around 80% of people practicing it will be backyard tinkerers, things are simple and logical, I do not see a future for patents for 99% of what is done today.</p> very interesting discussion
p…tag:aquaponicgardening.ning.com,2011-08-05:4778851:Comment:1710082011-08-05T06:43:05.307ZFrank De Block-Burij (hygicell)https://aquaponicgardening.ning.com/profile/FrankDeBlockBurij
<p>very interesting discussion</p>
<p>patents: been there, done that, burned my nose, fingers and hands</p>
<p>it is not all gold that shines</p>
<p>there are lots of sides to patent law</p>
<p>and all laws have flaws</p>
<p>first (Wikipedia): The word <i>patent</i> originates from the <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Latin" title="Latin">Latin</a> <i>patere</i>, which means "to lay open"</p>
<p>so a patent is meant to be the publication of an invention or idea, intended to allow other…</p>
<p>very interesting discussion</p>
<p>patents: been there, done that, burned my nose, fingers and hands</p>
<p>it is not all gold that shines</p>
<p>there are lots of sides to patent law</p>
<p>and all laws have flaws</p>
<p>first (Wikipedia): The word <i>patent</i> originates from the <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Latin" title="Latin">Latin</a> <i>patere</i>, which means "to lay open"</p>
<p>so a patent is meant to be the publication of an invention or idea, intended to allow other people to develop the idea further, which is a very good thing</p>
<p>second: the patent (if valid) is intended to protect one's investment into developing this idea, which is a very good thing too, as all efforts should be rewarded</p>
<p>consequence of this is: with a patent you divulge your idea, and (if the patent is valid) you are protected</p>
<p>but a patent is not valid by the mere fact that it is granted:</p>
the invention must be proven to be <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Novelty_%28patent%29" title="Novelty (patent)">new</a>, <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inventive_step_and_non-obviousness" title="Inventive step and non-obviousness">non-obvious</a>, and <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Utility_%28patent%29" title="Utility (patent)">useful</a> or <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Industrial_applicability" title="Industrial applicability">industrially applicable</a><br />
<p>so to become shot free a patent must be checked worldwide on newness, usefulness and industrial applicability</p>
<p>for this reason every granting is and stays by definition provisory</p>
<p>the procedure is as follows:</p>
<p>in a lot of countries (i.e. Belgium) you can cheaply apply for a national patent and it will be granted without much trouble as long as it corresponds only to the formalities required</p>
<p>this application must contain (amongst other formal requirements) at least the description and the claims</p>
<p>this gives you a priority date on the day you fill in the application. This date is extremely important.</p>
<p>from this day on you can call your invention "patent pending"</p>
<p>this is a good thing, warning people that you (might) have certain rights</p>
<p>it serves as a deterrant AND as proof that any later attempt to patent the same idea will be invalid</p>
<p>the bad side being that even a totally unacceptable claim can carry the "patent pending" label</p>
<p>(say I was to apply for a patent i.e. on the "wheel", chances are that I would be provisorily granted the patent as long as the formalities are fulfilled)</p>
<p>you then have the choice (within a certain period, mostly approximately 1 year, extendable) to leave it at that, to expand the application to other countries, or to ask for a newness investigation (or a combination of these) to consolidate</p>
<p>but this all costs a fortune, believe me</p>
<p>During this time the application is not yet publicised which gives you the possibilty to make adjustments to your claims</p>
<p>but every adjustment might cause the priority date to be postponed so chances increase that in the meantime somebody else has published something on the subject</p>
<p>if the investigation shows your invention to be (first and foremost) new AND non-obvious AND {useful OR industrially applicable}</p>
<p>chances are that your claims will turn out to be solid and the patent will be strong</p>
<p>but even then you have no guarantee:</p>
<p>if at any time, even after granting of the patent, an earlier document shows up, showing your idea, the patent will be declared invalid</p>
<p>and this is not the end of misery:</p>
<p>suppose your claims are rightful and your invention is proven new AND non-obvious AND {useful OR industrially applicable} and the patent is granted and confirmed</p>
<p>then you have a protected invention and the right to sell licenses (finally: the big money, hurray !!!)</p>
<p>but then comes another devil: protection</p>
<p>how are you going to find out that somebody has stolen your intellectual property and when and how much?</p>
<p>you will need a battery of lookouts and an army of lawyers</p>
<p>only to find out that, after a lengthy lawsuit, you cannot skin a pebble ;-(((</p>
<p>my conclusion: patents are for big corporations</p>
<p>that does not mean you should not apply for a patent if you think you have a real invention:</p>
<p>it will impede others to later try and find patent protection and make big money out of your idea,</p>
<p>you stand a chance of selling your patent to a company that thinks it can defend the rights</p>
<p>you can sell licenses, etc...</p>
<p>from <a href="http://www.tms.org/pubs/journals/JOM/matters/matters-0404.html" target="_blank">http://www.tms.org/pubs/journals/JOM/matters/matters-0404.html</a></p>
<p>One who seeks to obtain a benefit from the patent system by knowingly enforcing an invalid patent, however, has lost the shield against antitrust laws and can be found to have engaged in unlawful monopolization. Also, one who employs a patent as a vehicle for compelling others to purchase an unpatented product may be found to have engaged in unlawful “ tying” by enforcing or threatening to enforce the patent for purposes of controlling commerce in an unpatented product.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>now what else can you do if you have a splendid idea or product?</p>
<p>apply for a patent</p>
<p>you can share your idea (like so many have done) for non commercial purposes in grateful exchange for all the ideas you yourself have been able to get for free</p>
<p>share it for free or against a small fee or donation</p>
<p>another way is to try and keep it secret as long as possible</p>
<p>find a balance between vague but intriguing and alluring information which you then use to try and sell the idea</p>
<p>keep in mind that it is probably easier to sell an idea (plans, blueprints, calculations) many times for a small fee than one time for big money</p>
<p>is it a marketable product? then find an original appropriate trademark and logo (these are more easy and cheap to protect)</p>
<p>aim either for high quality finishing or for low selling price (i.e. a kit) or for both. Deposit your models to protect them.</p>
<p>spend your time in making a name for yourself instead of worrying about competition: you can not be everywhere</p>
<p>just try to stay a step ahead of them by constantly improving your product</p>
<p>you will find that competition actually will increase demand</p>
<p>Frank</p>
<p> </p>
<p> </p> Earl havent even considered t…tag:aquaponicgardening.ning.com,2011-07-19:4778851:Comment:1581302011-07-19T22:37:49.561ZDavid Waitehttps://aquaponicgardening.ning.com/profile/DavidWaite
Earl havent even considered that but you are right. I could easily see these displays in the center of malls and large corporations that have ties to agriculture or aquaculture. Endless indeed. <br />
<blockquote><div><p>the David, I could not agree more I also see aquaponcs being used it interior-scaping in restaurants, bars. retail outlets the potential is endless as long as we keep thinking out of the box.</p>
</div>
</blockquote>
Earl havent even considered that but you are right. I could easily see these displays in the center of malls and large corporations that have ties to agriculture or aquaculture. Endless indeed. <br />
<blockquote><div><p>the David, I could not agree more I also see aquaponcs being used it interior-scaping in restaurants, bars. retail outlets the potential is endless as long as we keep thinking out of the box.</p>
</div>
</blockquote> Yes- IEarl ward said:
David,…tag:aquaponicgardening.ning.com,2011-07-19:4778851:Comment:1578642011-07-19T17:14:19.153ZGrowzayhttps://aquaponicgardening.ning.com/profile/JGrowzayGerard
Yes- I<br/><br/><cite>Earl ward said:</cite>
<blockquote><div><p> David, I could not agree more I also see aquaponcs being used it interior-scaping in restaurants, bars. retail outlets the potential is endless as long as we keep thinking out of the box.</p>
</div>
</blockquote>
Yes- I<br/><br/><cite>Earl ward said:</cite>
<blockquote><div><p> David, I could not agree more I also see aquaponcs being used it interior-scaping in restaurants, bars. retail outlets the potential is endless as long as we keep thinking out of the box.</p>
</div>
</blockquote>