commercial aquaponic vs government subsidized industrial soil farming - Aquaponic Gardening2024-03-29T04:49:09Zhttps://aquaponicgardening.ning.com/forum/topics/commercial-aquaponic-vs-government-subsidized-industrial-soil?commentId=4778851%3AComment%3A263998&feed=yes&xn_auth=noNews on the Farm Bill front: …tag:aquaponicgardening.ning.com,2011-12-11:4778851:Comment:2639982011-12-11T14:27:43.424ZK Schreiberhttps://aquaponicgardening.ning.com/profile/KSchreiber
<p>News on the Farm Bill front: they're planning on getting rid of subsidies and putting more money into crop insurance, which will only benefit the big producers.</p>
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<p><a href="http://www.theatlantic.com/life/archive/2011/12/direct-subsidies-could-be-finished-but-youre-still-supporting-farmers/249372/" target="_blank">http://www.theatlantic.com/life/archive/2011/12/direct-subsidies-could-be-finished-but-youre-still-supporting-farmers/249372/</a></p>
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<p>News on the Farm Bill front: they're planning on getting rid of subsidies and putting more money into crop insurance, which will only benefit the big producers.</p>
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<p><a href="http://www.theatlantic.com/life/archive/2011/12/direct-subsidies-could-be-finished-but-youre-still-supporting-farmers/249372/" target="_blank">http://www.theatlantic.com/life/archive/2011/12/direct-subsidies-could-be-finished-but-youre-still-supporting-farmers/249372/</a></p>
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<p> </p> yep!Nate Storey said:
I won't…tag:aquaponicgardening.ning.com,2011-12-11:4778851:Comment:2640462011-12-11T14:18:44.626ZMyKisahttps://aquaponicgardening.ning.com/profile/MyKisa
<p>yep!<br></br><br></br><cite>Nate Storey said:</cite></p>
<blockquote cite="http://aquaponicscommunity.com/forum/topics/commercial-aquaponic-vs-government-subsidized-industrial-soil?xg_source=activity&id=4778851%3ATopic%3A204412&page=2#4778851Comment263716"><div><div class="xg_user_generated"><p>I won't subject everyone here to one of my hour-long rants about farm-subsidies. . . you're welcome. I will say that as bleak as it looks sometimes, remember that the dinosaurs went extinct. Why?…</p>
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<p>yep!<br/><br/><cite>Nate Storey said:</cite></p>
<blockquote cite="http://aquaponicscommunity.com/forum/topics/commercial-aquaponic-vs-government-subsidized-industrial-soil?xg_source=activity&id=4778851%3ATopic%3A204412&page=2#4778851Comment263716"><div><div class="xg_user_generated"><p>I won't subject everyone here to one of my hour-long rants about farm-subsidies. . . you're welcome. I will say that as bleak as it looks sometimes, remember that the dinosaurs went extinct. Why? Because they couldn't adapt. A bunch of hairy little beasts with fur, warm blood and four-chambered hearts came along and put them out of business. It doesn't matter that money has been wasted, thrown at bad ideas and broken systems. We will win. Good ideas always win, sometimes it just takes time. . . and a bunch of productive, voracious, hairy little beasts like ourselves. :)</p>
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<p>Oh, and you won't win by taking subsidies that artificially brace up bad ideas- you win by entering the market, tackling the problems head on, and innovating- something that I've seen an incredible amount of in the AP community. We're going to win, because we're inventive, not because we're funded.</p>
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</blockquote> Definitely.
Nate Storey sai…tag:aquaponicgardening.ning.com,2011-12-11:4778851:Comment:2642112011-12-11T12:55:37.195ZK Schreiberhttps://aquaponicgardening.ning.com/profile/KSchreiber
<p>Definitely.</p>
<p><br></br> <br></br> <cite>Nate Storey said:</cite></p>
<blockquote cite="http://aquaponicscommunity.com/forum/topics/commercial-aquaponic-vs-government-subsidized-industrial-soil?commentId=4778851%3AComment%3A263633&xg_source=msg_com_forum#4778851Comment263716"><div><div class="xg_user_generated"><p>I won't subject everyone here to one of my hour-long rants about farm-subsidies. . . you're welcome. I will say that as bleak as it looks sometimes, remember that the dinosaurs…</p>
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<p>Definitely.</p>
<p><br/> <br/> <cite>Nate Storey said:</cite></p>
<blockquote cite="http://aquaponicscommunity.com/forum/topics/commercial-aquaponic-vs-government-subsidized-industrial-soil?commentId=4778851%3AComment%3A263633&xg_source=msg_com_forum#4778851Comment263716"><div><div class="xg_user_generated"><p>I won't subject everyone here to one of my hour-long rants about farm-subsidies. . . you're welcome. I will say that as bleak as it looks sometimes, remember that the dinosaurs went extinct. Why? Because they couldn't adapt. A bunch of hairy little beasts with fur, warm blood and four-chambered hearts came along and put them out of business. It doesn't matter that money has been wasted, thrown at bad ideas and broken systems. We will win. Good ideas always win, sometimes it just takes time. . . and a bunch of productive, voracious, hairy little beasts like ourselves. :)</p>
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<p>Oh, and you won't win by taking subsidies that artificially brace up bad ideas- you win by entering the market, tackling the problems head on, and innovating- something that I've seen an incredible amount of in the AP community. We're going to win, because we're inventive, not because we're funded.</p>
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</blockquote> Well said, Gina -Definitely…tag:aquaponicgardening.ning.com,2011-12-10:4778851:Comment:2636332011-12-10T00:41:13.956ZJesse Hullhttps://aquaponicgardening.ning.com/profile/JesseHull
<p>Well said, Gina -Definitely agree.</p>
<p>It amazes me how farm subsidies are still falsely promoted as a necessity meant to save the family farm and protect national food security. Even those farmers I've spoken with who take subsidies will eventually narrow it down to a "necessary evil". What subsidies really do is create a situation where American families pay higher taxes to keep the cost of food <span style="text-decoration: underline;">seemingly</span> low (ie, it's a lie) and…</p>
<p>Well said, Gina -Definitely agree.</p>
<p>It amazes me how farm subsidies are still falsely promoted as a necessity meant to save the family farm and protect national food security. Even those farmers I've spoken with who take subsidies will eventually narrow it down to a "necessary evil". What subsidies really do is create a situation where American families pay higher taxes to keep the cost of food <span style="text-decoration: underline;">seemingly</span> low (ie, it's a lie) and perpetuate America's largest corporate welfare program. Subsidy rules actually exclude most small farmers, with the majority of the money going to large commercial agri-businesses averaging incomes of $200,000 or more and net worth of ~$2million. </p>
<p>Don't even get me started on how "food security" factors (or rather doesn't) in here.</p>
<p>Jesse</p>
<p><br/> <br/> <cite>Gina Cavaliero said:</cite></p>
<blockquote cite="http://aquaponicscommunity.com/forum/topics/commercial-aquaponic-vs-government-subsidized-industrial-soil?xg_source=activity#4778851Comment204416"><div><div class="xg_user_generated"><p>Hi Couch Potato, love the name btw, there are not currently any government subsidies for AP farms. Our industry is far too young to gather that type of government support or even acknowledgement for that matter. Besides subsidized farming isn't necessarily a good thing for agriculture and if AP is going to be one of the factors influencing the decentralization of our food supply, then subsidizing would actually deter the growth of local food markets and decentralization. The subsidizing of America's farms is quite a contentious issue and opponents argue that in order to deregulate the farm industry, there would have to be an end to direct payments to farmers entirely. The benefits of this alternative would be the creation of a free market environment in the agricultural sector, in effect boosting global welfare by allowing trade across borders dictated by supply and demand. However the industrialization of farming has effectively eliminated free trade and caused the decline of the small farm and the rise of the large farming conglomerate which has led to an overall decline in food quality and a rise in substandard processed foods. </p>
<p>I honestly don't know if aquaponic farms can ever replace industrial soil farming but it can provide a local food source and minimize reliance on big ag and fill a huge growing market demand.</p>
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</blockquote> I won't subject everyone here…tag:aquaponicgardening.ning.com,2011-12-10:4778851:Comment:2637162011-12-10T00:22:30.727ZNate Storeyhttps://aquaponicgardening.ning.com/profile/NateStorey
<p>I won't subject everyone here to one of my hour-long rants about farm-subsidies. . . you're welcome. I will say that as bleak as it looks sometimes, remember that the dinosaurs went extinct. Why? Because they couldn't adapt. A bunch of hairy little beasts with fur, warm blood and four-chambered hearts came along and put them out of business. It doesn't matter that money has been wasted, thrown at bad ideas and broken systems. We will win. Good ideas always win, sometimes it just takes…</p>
<p>I won't subject everyone here to one of my hour-long rants about farm-subsidies. . . you're welcome. I will say that as bleak as it looks sometimes, remember that the dinosaurs went extinct. Why? Because they couldn't adapt. A bunch of hairy little beasts with fur, warm blood and four-chambered hearts came along and put them out of business. It doesn't matter that money has been wasted, thrown at bad ideas and broken systems. We will win. Good ideas always win, sometimes it just takes time. . . and a bunch of productive, voracious, hairy little beasts like ourselves. :)</p>
<p></p>
<p>Oh, and you won't win by taking subsidies that artificially brace up bad ideas- you win by entering the market, tackling the problems head on, and innovating- something that I've seen an incredible amount of in the AP community. We're going to win, because we're inventive, not because we're funded.</p> Hahaha!!! You used "governmen…tag:aquaponicgardening.ning.com,2011-12-09:4778851:Comment:2634402011-12-09T12:35:33.816ZVlad Jovanovichttps://aquaponicgardening.ning.com/profile/VladJovanovic
<p>Hahaha!!! You used "government regulations" and "common sense" in the same sentence.</p>
<p>I didn't get the drift that Dave was complaining or whining. I mean he rather aptly illustrated how the scam works and some of what small/medium producers are up against.</p>
<p> "...<em>once open access and open door policy and open sourcing of better growing technologies and farming techniques on how to grow the food truly better, becomes part of the mantra of the human psyche, then everyone's…</em></p>
<p>Hahaha!!! You used "government regulations" and "common sense" in the same sentence.</p>
<p>I didn't get the drift that Dave was complaining or whining. I mean he rather aptly illustrated how the scam works and some of what small/medium producers are up against.</p>
<p> "...<em>once open access and open door policy and open sourcing of better growing technologies and farming techniques on how to grow the food truly better, becomes part of the mantra of the human psyche, then everyone's attitude will change</em>...."</p>
<p>And what? All the ADM's, Con Agra's, and the Gov. regulating bodies they've employed are gonna do what? Say, "Hey folks it sure was <em>wrong</em> of us to profit off y'all in that way, we see now that we are not being <em>nice</em>, so were gonna shut down shop and leave you all be. We're gonna go home now and stand in the corner and think about what we've done"...<br/> <br/> <cite>Cy said:</cite></p>
<blockquote cite="http://aquaponicscommunity.com/forum/topics/commercial-aquaponic-vs-government-subsidized-industrial-soil?id=4778851%3ATopic%3A204412&page=2#4778851Comment263044"><div><div class="xg_user_generated"><p>there is something wrong when people blame health and safety regulation for their problems.</p>
<p>You should complain about lack of regulation in the southern states, not about the regulations that are there to protect the families of the farmers and workers to begin with, and then move down to their customers.</p>
<p>Farmers do a lousy public relations job. they forget that they need to teach their customers about quality and involve their customers in their products. how many of big businesses the buyer goes and visit the factory where they are buying their product from, vs. the average public visiting a farm.</p>
<p>it is almost like a kitchen, when you go to a restaurant if the kitchen is hidden people feel less safe, vs, when the kitchen and even the dishwashing station is in the open view of everyone so there is nothing hidden. neither the farmer nor the consumer quite understands this concept at least consciously. once open access and open door policy and open sourcing of better growing technologies and farming techniques on how to grow the food truly better, becomes part of the mantra of the human psyche, then everyone's attitude will change.</p>
<p>This is not a concept that applies just to USA it is a global concept, we are lazy, we really don’t care to learn and we really don’t educate what we know, we are stingy beings, that hate sharing.</p>
<p>Interesting enough though, aquaponics is a strange animal, i guess profit hasn’t been much, but here, everyone is a small operator.</p>
<p>where are the BIG AQUAPONIC operators, there must be some out there, considering that canadian government did a big study of greenhouse output of aquaponics system vs. regular greenhouse (and by the way they found out the output same at the end of the season but the aquaponics greenhouse, was two weeks earlier in production than regular greenhouse system)</p>
<p>So stop complaining about the government regulations, and use some common sense, and I do want to remind you all,</p>
<p>As HUMANA WE REALLY USE VERY LITTLE COMMON SENSE.</p>
<p>GREED STINGINESS STUPITY IGNORANCE ALL CREEPS IN AND BLINDS US TO WHAT WE ACTUALLY KNOW TO BE THE RIGHT THING TO DO.</p>
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</blockquote> TC sounds like foodinc.tag:aquaponicgardening.ning.com,2011-12-09:4778851:Comment:2632202011-12-09T00:49:30.514ZFarcry305https://aquaponicgardening.ning.com/profile/FrankEly
<p>TC sounds like foodinc.</p>
<p>TC sounds like foodinc.</p> TC sounds like foodinc.tag:aquaponicgardening.ning.com,2011-12-09:4778851:Comment:2634102011-12-09T00:41:44.083ZFarcry305https://aquaponicgardening.ning.com/profile/FrankEly
<p>TC sounds like foodinc.</p>
<p>TC sounds like foodinc.</p> i have one sentance that disc…tag:aquaponicgardening.ning.com,2011-12-08:4778851:Comment:2628712011-12-08T09:31:35.252Zandrew namiki roberthttps://aquaponicgardening.ning.com/profile/andrewnamikirobert
<p>i have one sentance that discribes all of the last 2 pages </p>
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<p>PROFIT BEFORE PEOPLE</p>
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<p>i have one sentance that discribes all of the last 2 pages </p>
<p></p>
<p>PROFIT BEFORE PEOPLE</p>
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<p></p> there is something wrong when…tag:aquaponicgardening.ning.com,2011-12-08:4778851:Comment:2630442011-12-08T08:42:59.775ZCyhttps://aquaponicgardening.ning.com/profile/Cy
<p>there is something wrong when people blame health and safety regulation for their problems.</p>
<p>You should complain about lack of regulation in the southern states, not about the regulations that are there to protect the families of the farmers and workers to begin with, and then move down to their customers.</p>
<p>Farmers do a lousy public relations job. they forget that they need to teach their customers about quality and involve their customers in their products. how many of big…</p>
<p>there is something wrong when people blame health and safety regulation for their problems.</p>
<p>You should complain about lack of regulation in the southern states, not about the regulations that are there to protect the families of the farmers and workers to begin with, and then move down to their customers.</p>
<p>Farmers do a lousy public relations job. they forget that they need to teach their customers about quality and involve their customers in their products. how many of big businesses the buyer goes and visit the factory where they are buying their product from, vs. the average public visiting a farm.</p>
<p>it is almost like a kitchen, when you go to a restaurant if the kitchen is hidden people feel less safe, vs, when the kitchen and even the dishwashing station is in the open view of everyone so there is nothing hidden. neither the farmer nor the consumer quite understands this concept at least consciously. once open access and open door policy and open sourcing of better growing technologies and farming techniques on how to grow the food truly better, becomes part of the mantra of the human psyche, then everyone's attitude will change.</p>
<p>This is not a concept that applies just to USA it is a global concept, we are lazy, we really don’t care to learn and we really don’t educate what we know, we are stingy beings, that hate sharing.</p>
<p>Interesting enough though, aquaponics is a strange animal, i guess profit hasn’t been much, but here, everyone is a small operator.</p>
<p>where are the BIG AQUAPONIC operators, there must be some out there, considering that canadian government did a big study of greenhouse output of aquaponics system vs. regular greenhouse (and by the way they found out the output same at the end of the season but the aquaponics greenhouse, was two weeks earlier in production than regular greenhouse system)</p>
<p>So stop complaining about the government regulations, and use some common sense, and I do want to remind you all,</p>
<p>As HUMANA WE REALLY USE VERY LITTLE COMMON SENSE.</p>
<p>GREED STINGINESS STUPITY IGNORANCE ALL CREEPS IN AND BLINDS US TO WHAT WE ACTUALLY KNOW TO BE THE RIGHT THING TO DO.</p>