Charcoal as a media - Aquaponic Gardening2024-03-28T14:25:20Zhttps://aquaponicgardening.ning.com/forum/topics/charcoal-as-a-media?commentId=4778851%3AComment%3A28862&feed=yes&xn_auth=noOf course ash will raise, and…tag:aquaponicgardening.ning.com,2013-01-29:4778851:Comment:4339662013-01-29T01:07:05.140ZJon Parrhttps://aquaponicgardening.ning.com/profile/JonParr
Of course ash will raise, and unburnt wood lowers, but in a retort there is no ash (or unburnt wood, ideally), just char. Remember, it isn't burnt wood, it's baked wood. Imagine Cajun blackened fish, only instead of fish, it's wood. I don't know how it affects pH directly, I haven't tried it, and unfortunately I don't have any fresh char at the moment to experiment. I would imagine that good clean char from a retort would be pretty neutral, no ash or tannins.<br />
Now, char made in a TLUD would be…
Of course ash will raise, and unburnt wood lowers, but in a retort there is no ash (or unburnt wood, ideally), just char. Remember, it isn't burnt wood, it's baked wood. Imagine Cajun blackened fish, only instead of fish, it's wood. I don't know how it affects pH directly, I haven't tried it, and unfortunately I don't have any fresh char at the moment to experiment. I would imagine that good clean char from a retort would be pretty neutral, no ash or tannins.<br />
Now, char made in a TLUD would be ashy, fo sho<br />
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Jessie, nice site. So how about that advice...Pretty please? @Bob...Like Jesse says, ash c…tag:aquaponicgardening.ning.com,2013-01-28:4778851:Comment:4339522013-01-28T21:51:41.715ZVlad Jovanovichttps://aquaponicgardening.ning.com/profile/VladJovanovic
<p>@Bob...Like Jesse says, ash content will certainly affect pH values (obviously), and again, this is mostly related to the pyrolysis temps used. Acid washes are used to partially <em>remove</em> this ash content (inorganic Mg and K) which plug up all those small pores...</p>
<p>@Bob...Like Jesse says, ash content will certainly affect pH values (obviously), and again, this is mostly related to the pyrolysis temps used. Acid washes are used to partially <em>remove</em> this ash content (inorganic Mg and K) which plug up all those small pores...</p> Hum, I think to large extent…tag:aquaponicgardening.ning.com,2013-01-28:4778851:Comment:4336912013-01-28T21:47:38.107ZTCLynxhttps://aquaponicgardening.ning.com/profile/TCLynx
<p>Hum, I think to large extent the pH action related to charcoal is going to be dependent on</p>
<p>1-did ashes get into the system at first (remember that leached hardwood ashes are how we used to make old fashion potash lye or potassium hydroxide which will raise pH) Wood ashes are used in the garden often to raise pH and add potassium to the soil.</p>
<p>2-what kind of wood was it and how completely are the previous constituents of that wood burned out (or how much pure carbon is left…</p>
<p>Hum, I think to large extent the pH action related to charcoal is going to be dependent on</p>
<p>1-did ashes get into the system at first (remember that leached hardwood ashes are how we used to make old fashion potash lye or potassium hydroxide which will raise pH) Wood ashes are used in the garden often to raise pH and add potassium to the soil.</p>
<p>2-what kind of wood was it and how completely are the previous constituents of that wood burned out (or how much pure carbon is left compared to other stuff)</p>
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<p>I know of some one who actually used a lump of charcoal to reduce pH. He did an experiment where he took a jar of water and put a lump of charcoal in it and left it till the pH dropped below 6 and then he pulled the charcoal out and put a lump of calcium carbonate it it till the pH got up over 7.6 or 8 (I don't remember which) and he alternated this way for a while just to see what would happen until he got board with it (probably a week or so.) He wasn't sure the type of wood, probably gum.</p>
<p></p> In my other life, I was a cer…tag:aquaponicgardening.ning.com,2013-01-28:4778851:Comment:4336752013-01-28T17:07:30.671ZJesse Hullhttps://aquaponicgardening.ning.com/profile/JesseHull
<p>In my other life, I was a ceramic chemist and studio owner (<a href="http://www.jessehull.com" target="_blank">www.jessehull.com</a>). <span style="font-size: 13px;">I built many kilns while in school and in the ceramic art world. </span></p>
<p><span style="font-size: 13px;">The denser and more vitreous the material, the greater the risk of thermal shock, micro cracks, and eventual fracturing.</span></p>
<p><br></br> <cite>Jon Parr said:…</cite></p>
<p>In my other life, I was a ceramic chemist and studio owner (<a href="http://www.jessehull.com" target="_blank">www.jessehull.com</a>). <span style="font-size: 13px;">I built many kilns while in school and in the ceramic art world. </span></p>
<p><span style="font-size: 13px;">The denser and more vitreous the material, the greater the risk of thermal shock, micro cracks, and eventual fracturing.</span></p>
<p><br/> <cite>Jon Parr said:</cite></p>
<blockquote cite="http://community.theaquaponicsource.com/forum/topics/charcoal-as-a-media?commentId=4778851%3AComment%3A433738&xg_source=activity#4778851Comment433738"><div><div class="xg_user_generated">Jesse, I used the standard fire bricks because, well, I didn't know any better. Fire brick is what was recommended by the masonry supply house, and is what I saw in all the YouTube vids. I presume it will suffice, but I'll look into the refractory bricks you spoke of, and always looking for good advice, thanks.<br/> <br/> Char is not ordinary media. The carbon is very active material, whether or not it was prepared as "activated carbon" or not. The cellular structure left behind from the wood, and the carbon's action as nutrient sponge allow nutrients to be stored, and retrieved as needed by bacterial action and roots. This special relationship is unique to char. It is not something that goes away when bioslime coats everything. That's when it really gets started. It's not necessary to AP, of course, but it makes sense and works well.<br/> <br/> Hi or low temp? Good question. I've read convincing arguments for both hi OR low, and convincing arguments to use both hi AND low temp char. The reality is that an indirect retort produces both. The material near the edges gets hot, the middle not so hot (not even charred if you pull the plug too quickly).<br/> <br/> Either way, char is very durable in AP. It's not dirty or sooty, it doesn't crush under use any more than other media, and is a joy to work in. Most of all, folks, it's the most local media most of us have access to. And it doesn't consume loads of petroleum like hydroton, expanded shale, and slate, expanded glass, etc. That expanded glass stuff is a joke, btw. It's labeled as the lightest media (translated: it's as sharp as razor blades and crushes to dust in your fist), and all feel-good green and environmental because it's recycled. News flash! Glass is already being recycled into, you guessed it, more glass.</div>
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</blockquote> Activated charcoal has more '…tag:aquaponicgardening.ning.com,2013-01-28:4778851:Comment:4338502013-01-28T17:04:24.832ZJesse Hullhttps://aquaponicgardening.ning.com/profile/JesseHull
<p>Activated charcoal has more 'pitting', increasing the surface area. Eventually this surface will become covered with bacterial slime. <span style="font-size: 13px;">The pitted surface gets smoothed out and you have less surface area exposed to the aerated ammonia & nitrite containing water. </span><span style="font-size: 13px;">Aerobes require oxygen, so as the slime gets thicker only the bacterial colonies nearer the outer surface are having much of an impact on…</span></p>
<p>Activated charcoal has more 'pitting', increasing the surface area. Eventually this surface will become covered with bacterial slime. <span style="font-size: 13px;">The pitted surface gets smoothed out and you have less surface area exposed to the aerated ammonia & nitrite containing water. </span><span style="font-size: 13px;">Aerobes require oxygen, so as the slime gets thicker only the bacterial colonies nearer the outer surface are having much of an impact on nitrification.</span></p>
<p>This is one reason why mechanical biofilters, where the media used also has a strategically increased surface area, must be agitated and purged regularly. The bio slime will eventually work against the system.</p>
<p>As you go through planting and harvesting of whatever media you choose, the media gets 'worked' and bio slime is shed to clear the surface and make way for more colonies to form.</p>
<p><br/> <br/> <cite>Chris Carr said:</cite></p>
<blockquote cite="http://community.theaquaponicsource.com/forum/topics/charcoal-as-a-media?commentId=4778851%3AComment%3A433738&xg_source=activity#4778851Comment433912"><div><div class="xg_user_generated"><p>Jon, If anything "activated" will just be more brittle and float easier would it not? also depending on the size of the pours and the size of the bioslime, perhaps any added surface area will become less effective, or not any more effective at all compared to low temp. Was only pointing out temp wasnt the only factor in creating two different products.</p>
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<p>Vlad. That was 1..2...$3, not 30. Wasnt a typo <img src="http://www.bkserv.net/images/Smile.gif"/> Everything in Vietnam cheap if domestically sourced, expensive if imported.</p>
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</blockquote> I would think that charred wo…tag:aquaponicgardening.ning.com,2013-01-28:4778851:Comment:4338492013-01-28T16:50:09.100ZJesse Hullhttps://aquaponicgardening.ning.com/profile/JesseHull
<p>I would think that charred wood would certainly raise the pH. Obviously more so if you hadn't rinsed it (wood ash = potassium source). I'm not privy to the details, and I don't think the test was even completed, but I do know of experiments started locally where using it as an alkaline pH adjuster was actually one of the targeted goals.</p>
<p>Do you suspect, or has it been anyone else's experience that the pH of the charcoal media will drop over time?</p>
<p>Soaking it in an acid bath…</p>
<p>I would think that charred wood would certainly raise the pH. Obviously more so if you hadn't rinsed it (wood ash = potassium source). I'm not privy to the details, and I don't think the test was even completed, but I do know of experiments started locally where using it as an alkaline pH adjuster was actually one of the targeted goals.</p>
<p>Do you suspect, or has it been anyone else's experience that the pH of the charcoal media will drop over time?</p>
<p>Soaking it in an acid bath might work to neutralize it. It certainly does for rockwool.</p>
<p><br/> <cite>Bob Campbell said:</cite></p>
<blockquote cite="http://community.theaquaponicsource.com/forum/topics/charcoal-as-a-media?commentId=4778851%3AComment%3A433738&xg_source=activity#4778851Comment433913"><div><div class="xg_user_generated"><p>The pH was off the scale to begin with and climbs to over 9. I try to keep it near 6 and adjust it every other day.. When I first began, I rinsed the charcoal 4 times and the water was clear so I went no further. It might have helped if I had rinsed it more. Next time I think I'll try that, and also soak it in a very strong acid bath before planting. <br/> <br/> <cite>Vlad Jovanovic said:</cite></p>
<blockquote cite="http://community.theaquaponicsource.com/forum/topics/charcoal-as-a-media?commentId=4778851%3AComment%3A433662&xg_source=msg_com_forum#4778851Comment433910"><div><div class="xg_user_generated">...<p>Where's the pH at currently? What did it start out as?</p>
<p><br/> <br/> <cite>Bob Campbell said:</cite></p>
<blockquote cite="http://community.theaquaponicsource.com/forum/topics/charcoal-as-a-media?page=5&commentId=4778851%3AComment%3A433820&x=1#4778851Comment433820"><div><div class="xg_user_generated"><p> The large chucks of charcoal that I bought at Cash and Carry were most likely made at low temperature, but I'm pleased with the durability of this charcoal.. </p>
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</blockquote> Right-O Chris, Right-O.
Vlad…tag:aquaponicgardening.ning.com,2013-01-28:4778851:Comment:4336632013-01-28T05:17:17.336ZJon Parrhttps://aquaponicgardening.ning.com/profile/JonParr
Right-O Chris, Right-O.<br />
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Vlad, I need to PM you, but I'm not at home, and this forum won't let me send a PM from my cel. It used to, probably will again, but for the moment either my phone or this site are glitched. So, shoot me a note at jon@fishnetaquaponics.com when you get a minute.<br />
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Thanks
Right-O Chris, Right-O.<br />
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Vlad, I need to PM you, but I'm not at home, and this forum won't let me send a PM from my cel. It used to, probably will again, but for the moment either my phone or this site are glitched. So, shoot me a note at jon@fishnetaquaponics.com when you get a minute.<br />
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Thanks Sorry Chris..I actually did g…tag:aquaponicgardening.ning.com,2013-01-28:4778851:Comment:4338312013-01-28T05:02:02.143ZVlad Jovanovichttps://aquaponicgardening.ning.com/profile/VladJovanovic
<p>Sorry Chris..I actually <em>did</em> get that. MINE <em>was</em> a typo...3 bucks and not 30 is how my brain understood you...Now if my fingers would do the same...<br></br> <br></br> <cite>Chris Carr said:</cite></p>
<blockquote cite="http://community.theaquaponicsource.com/forum/topics/charcoal-as-a-media?xg_source=activity&id=4778851%3ATopic%3A28601&page=6#4778851Comment433912"><div><div class="xg_user_generated"><p>Jon, If anything "activated" will just be more brittle and float easier…</p>
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<p>Sorry Chris..I actually <em>did</em> get that. MINE <em>was</em> a typo...3 bucks and not 30 is how my brain understood you...Now if my fingers would do the same...<br/> <br/> <cite>Chris Carr said:</cite></p>
<blockquote cite="http://community.theaquaponicsource.com/forum/topics/charcoal-as-a-media?xg_source=activity&id=4778851%3ATopic%3A28601&page=6#4778851Comment433912"><div><div class="xg_user_generated"><p>Jon, If anything "activated" will just be more brittle and float easier would it not? also depending on the size of the pours and the size of the bioslime, perhaps any added surface area will become less effective, or not any more effective at all compared to low temp. Was only pointing out temp wasnt the only factor in creating two different products.</p>
<p></p>
<p>Vlad. That was 1..2...$3, not 30. Wasnt a typo <img src="http://www.bkserv.net/images/Smile.gif"/> Everything in Vietnam cheap if domestically sourced, expensive if imported.</p>
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</blockquote> hehe...
tag:aquaponicgardening.ning.com,2013-01-28:4778851:Comment:4338302013-01-28T04:59:11.446ZVlad Jovanovichttps://aquaponicgardening.ning.com/profile/VladJovanovic
<p><a href="http://storage.ning.com/topology/rest/1.0/file/get/2772237676?profile=original" target="_self"><img src="http://storage.ning.com/topology/rest/1.0/file/get/2772237676?profile=original" width="721" class="align-full"/></a> hehe...</p>
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<p><a href="http://storage.ning.com/topology/rest/1.0/file/get/2772237676?profile=original" target="_self"><img src="http://storage.ning.com/topology/rest/1.0/file/get/2772237676?profile=original" width="721" class="align-full"/></a> hehe...</p>
<p></p> Jon, If anything "activated"…tag:aquaponicgardening.ning.com,2013-01-28:4778851:Comment:4339122013-01-28T04:56:35.197ZChris Carrhttps://aquaponicgardening.ning.com/profile/Chris954
<p>Jon, If anything "activated" will just be more brittle and float easier would it not? also depending on the size of the pours and the size of the bioslime, perhaps any added surface area will become less effective, or not any more effective at all compared to low temp. Was only pointing out temp wasnt the only factor in creating two different products.</p>
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<p>Vlad. That was 1..2...$3, not 30. Wasnt a typo <img src="http://www.bkserv.net/images/Smile.gif"></img> Everything in Vietnam cheap if domestically sourced, expensive if…</p>
<p>Jon, If anything "activated" will just be more brittle and float easier would it not? also depending on the size of the pours and the size of the bioslime, perhaps any added surface area will become less effective, or not any more effective at all compared to low temp. Was only pointing out temp wasnt the only factor in creating two different products.</p>
<p></p>
<p>Vlad. That was 1..2...$3, not 30. Wasnt a typo <img src="http://www.bkserv.net/images/Smile.gif"/> Everything in Vietnam cheap if domestically sourced, expensive if imported.</p>