Can anyone explain the Ben Glenn Aquazen? - Aquaponic Gardening2024-03-28T16:07:34Zhttps://aquaponicgardening.ning.com/forum/topics/can-anyone-explain-the-ben-glenn-aquazen?commentId=4778851%3AComment%3A623133&xg_source=activity&feed=yes&xn_auth=noInteresting that what they ca…tag:aquaponicgardening.ning.com,2016-02-01:4778851:Comment:6233242016-02-01T23:24:29.986ZFrederick Hendersonhttps://aquaponicgardening.ning.com/profile/FrederickHenderson
<p>Interesting that what they call a geyser ejection pump has been patent under the name pneumatic ejector pump. I see that this document dates back to June of 2014. Aquatic Ecosystems (Pentair) does not seem to carry any of these. The domain name for the email address given is for sale. </p>
<p>Interesting that what they call a geyser ejection pump has been patent under the name pneumatic ejector pump. I see that this document dates back to June of 2014. Aquatic Ecosystems (Pentair) does not seem to carry any of these. The domain name for the email address given is for sale. </p> Yes all airlift style pumps i…tag:aquaponicgardening.ning.com,2016-02-01:4778851:Comment:6231332016-02-01T18:14:16.649ZBrian Rascohttps://aquaponicgardening.ning.com/profile/BrianRasco
<p>Yes all airlift style pumps including geyser style must have their water intake submerged to some extent. Attached is a chart for the Kondo geyser pump showing submergence ratio and efficiency. They show a ratio of up to 1/10 for the geyser ejection pump which uses an intake check valve. This is why this style is superior as long as you can stand the intermittent flow.</p>
<p>Also attached a chart showing a minimum submergence ratio for a traditional airlift pump of 1/1. Of course this ratio…</p>
<p>Yes all airlift style pumps including geyser style must have their water intake submerged to some extent. Attached is a chart for the Kondo geyser pump showing submergence ratio and efficiency. They show a ratio of up to 1/10 for the geyser ejection pump which uses an intake check valve. This is why this style is superior as long as you can stand the intermittent flow.</p>
<p>Also attached a chart showing a minimum submergence ratio for a traditional airlift pump of 1/1. Of course this ratio would be inefficient compared to one using a 1/2 ratio. The challenge here is to be able to get the water intake deep enough to get the lift height you need.</p>
<p>All this being said, It looks like the geyser ejector pump is the way to go.</p> I believe they do. All air l…tag:aquaponicgardening.ning.com,2016-01-30:4778851:Comment:6228112016-01-30T13:03:54.472ZGeorgehttps://aquaponicgardening.ning.com/profile/Geoge
<p>I believe they do. All air lifts must release air below the surface of the water you wish to pump. I haven't seen an exception to this.<br/> <br/> <cite>Brian Rasco said:</cite></p>
<blockquote cite="http://community.theaquaponicsource.com/forum/topics/can-anyone-explain-the-ben-glenn-aquazen?id=4778851%3ATopic%3A594896&page=2#4778851Comment622676"><div class="xg_user_generated">The geyser style pumps do not need this submergence at all.<br/> <br/> <cite><br/></cite></div>
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<p>I believe they do. All air lifts must release air below the surface of the water you wish to pump. I haven't seen an exception to this.<br/> <br/> <cite>Brian Rasco said:</cite></p>
<blockquote cite="http://community.theaquaponicsource.com/forum/topics/can-anyone-explain-the-ben-glenn-aquazen?id=4778851%3ATopic%3A594896&page=2#4778851Comment622676"><div class="xg_user_generated">The geyser style pumps do not need this submergence at all.<br/> <br/> <cite><br/></cite></div>
</blockquote> Hi Brian!
Sorry it was late w…tag:aquaponicgardening.ning.com,2016-01-30:4778851:Comment:6229082016-01-30T09:22:01.446ZFrederick Hendersonhttps://aquaponicgardening.ning.com/profile/FrederickHenderson
<p>Hi Brian!</p>
<p>Sorry it was late when I wrote that. I should have written that rule of thumb for best efficiency with an airlift is to have the air released 2 times deeper than you want to lift it. Sure you can get away with less but then you will have less water output or need a much more air. See Table 2 on Page 12 of <a href="http://www.northidahokoikeepers.com/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderfiles/air-liftpresentation.pdf" target="_blank">Air-Lift History By Brian Sidney Johnson…</a></p>
<p>Hi Brian!</p>
<p>Sorry it was late when I wrote that. I should have written that rule of thumb for best efficiency with an airlift is to have the air released 2 times deeper than you want to lift it. Sure you can get away with less but then you will have less water output or need a much more air. See Table 2 on Page 12 of <a href="http://www.northidahokoikeepers.com/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderfiles/air-liftpresentation.pdf" target="_blank">Air-Lift History By Brian Sidney Johnson Louisiana State University</a> for his findings.</p>
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<p>Do you have a document that gives this information for geyser pumps? </p> Fredrick check your facts o…tag:aquaponicgardening.ning.com,2016-01-30:4778851:Comment:6226762016-01-30T03:05:04.320ZBrian Rascohttps://aquaponicgardening.ning.com/profile/BrianRasco
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Fredrick check your facts on the pumps. The air lift style must have its lower end below the water surface the same distance as the outlet is above the surface, not twice as much.<br />
The geyser style pumps do not need this submergence at all.<br />
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<cite>Frederick Henderson said:…</cite><blockquote cite="http://community.theaquaponicsource.com/forum/topics/can-anyone-explain-the-ben-glenn-aquazen?commentId=4778851%3AComment%3A622802&xg_source=msg_com_forum#4778851Comment622802"></blockquote>
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Fredrick check your facts on the pumps. The air lift style must have its lower end below the water surface the same distance as the outlet is above the surface, not twice as much.<br />
The geyser style pumps do not need this submergence at all.<br />
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<cite>Frederick Henderson said:</cite><blockquote cite="http://community.theaquaponicsource.com/forum/topics/can-anyone-explain-the-ben-glenn-aquazen?commentId=4778851%3AComment%3A622802&xg_source=msg_com_forum#4778851Comment622802"><div><div class="xg_user_generated"><p>So far I have seen three basic types of devices for pumping water with air:</p>
<ol>
<li>Air lifts - These are air bubbles pushing up through a column of water to lift the water. Simplest but also the least efficient. 2:1 ration is the rule of thumb. If you want to pump the water 1 foot above the surface of the tank then you need to release the air at least 2 feet under the surface.</li>
<li>Geyser pumps - Name because like a geyser they pump in spurts. This is because the air gets trapped then via a syphon (planned for or not) periodically the air exit in a slug that pushes the water up. These are more efficient than air lifts.</li>
<li><span>Pneumatic Ejector Pumps - These are similar to the geyser pump but add a check-valve to keep the water from going the wrong way. I believe that these devices are the most efficient. See this youtube video <a rel="nofollow" href="https://youtu.be/RccAa_qrPA8?list=PLsXi696xqv-svX_yCVbxTqdIRCh7bv5hx" target="_blank">https://youtu.be/RccAa_qrPA8?list=PLsXi696xqv-svX_yCVbxTqdIRCh7bv5hx</a> for more information on them and a great explanation. I also commented on that video and have posted some links to diagrams. Diagrams gallery is here: <a rel="nofollow" href="http://s1143.photobucket.com/user/frederickjh/library/Aquaponics/Pneumatic%20Ejector%20Pump" target="_blank">Aquaponics Pneumatic Ejector Pump Diagrams</a>.<br/></span></li>
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<p><span>Glenn's portable setup has one pneumatic ejector pump. This is the one with the swinging check valve. He sets the horizontal pipe on a slope so that the air will syphon out in big slugs.</span></p>
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<p><span>@Hollis Armstrong you say you need to pump about 20 feet, is that 20 above the surface of the tank? If that is true you can figure that you will need to release the air 2 times as far below the surface of the water or 40 feet in this case. If you tank is 5 feet deep then you would need to "artificially" lower the bottom of your tank 35 feet like glen does. I am not sure that is practical. </span></p>
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</blockquote> So far I have seen three basi…tag:aquaponicgardening.ning.com,2016-01-30:4778851:Comment:6228022016-01-30T01:07:58.014ZFrederick Hendersonhttps://aquaponicgardening.ning.com/profile/FrederickHenderson
<p>So far I have seen three basic types of devices for pumping water with air:</p>
<ol>
<li>Air lifts - These are air bubbles pushing up through a column of water to lift the water. Simplest but also the least efficient. 2:1 ration is the rule of thumb. If you want to pump the water 1 foot above the surface of the tank then you need to release the air at least 2 feet under the surface.</li>
<li>Geyser pumps - Name because like a geyser they pump in spurts. This is because the air gets trapped…</li>
</ol>
<p>So far I have seen three basic types of devices for pumping water with air:</p>
<ol>
<li>Air lifts - These are air bubbles pushing up through a column of water to lift the water. Simplest but also the least efficient. 2:1 ration is the rule of thumb. If you want to pump the water 1 foot above the surface of the tank then you need to release the air at least 2 feet under the surface.</li>
<li>Geyser pumps - Name because like a geyser they pump in spurts. This is because the air gets trapped then via a syphon (planned for or not) periodically the air exit in a slug that pushes the water up. These are more efficient than air lifts.</li>
<li><span>Pneumatic Ejector Pumps - These are similar to the geyser pump but add a check-valve to keep the water from going the wrong way. I believe that these devices are the most efficient. See this youtube video <a rel="nofollow" href="https://youtu.be/RccAa_qrPA8?list=PLsXi696xqv-svX_yCVbxTqdIRCh7bv5hx" target="_blank">https://youtu.be/RccAa_qrPA8?list=PLsXi696xqv-svX_yCVbxTqdIRCh7bv5hx</a> for more information on them and a great explanation. I also commented on that video and have posted some links to diagrams. Diagrams gallery is here: <a rel="nofollow" href="http://s1143.photobucket.com/user/frederickjh/library/Aquaponics/Pneumatic%20Ejector%20Pump" target="_blank">Aquaponics Pneumatic Ejector Pump Diagrams</a>.<br/></span></li>
</ol>
<p><span>Glenn's portable setup has one pneumatic ejector pump. This is the one with the swinging check valve. He sets the horizontal pipe on a slope so that the air will syphon out in big slugs.</span></p>
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<p><span>@Hollis Armstrong you say you need to pump about 20 feet, is that 20 above the surface of the tank? If that is true you can figure that you will need to release the air 2 times as far below the surface of the water or 40 feet in this case. If you tank is 5 feet deep then you would need to "artificially" lower the bottom of your tank 35 feet like glen does. I am not sure that is practical. </span></p> Yeah, no kidding; however, in…tag:aquaponicgardening.ning.com,2016-01-29:4778851:Comment:6226592016-01-29T02:50:30.732ZGeorgehttps://aquaponicgardening.ning.com/profile/Geoge
<p>Yeah, no kidding; however, in theory it could be done, according to Glenn's demonstrations. I have trouble understanding the videos but it appears that he is showing a couple of different types of air lifts, some with air injected into a vertical pipe (I use this type) and some into a horizontal (which include a check valve). I don't know what the performance differences are between the two simple air lifts, called burpers by Glenn. There is also a third air-powered water pump, a…</p>
<p>Yeah, no kidding; however, in theory it could be done, according to Glenn's demonstrations. I have trouble understanding the videos but it appears that he is showing a couple of different types of air lifts, some with air injected into a vertical pipe (I use this type) and some into a horizontal (which include a check valve). I don't know what the performance differences are between the two simple air lifts, called burpers by Glenn. There is also a third air-powered water pump, a pneumatic ejector pump, aka geyser. I use my air lift to keep the bottom of my tank clean of solids and as supplemental/redundant aeration.</p>
<p><a rel="nofollow" href="https://youtu.be/ztHBHULkHNQ?list=PLVPmWRXPcivGZaakdJe30hAFVHaGzOaQN" target="_blank">https://youtu.be/ztHBHULkHNQ?list=PLVPmWRXPcivGZaakdJe30hAFVHaGzOaQN</a></p>
<p><a rel="nofollow" href="https://youtu.be/OQqz8yR7sF8?list=PLFoqv_g77JaPRp6ymOHwK4dMsZUF0zl6T" target="_blank">https://youtu.be/OQqz8yR7sF8?list=PLFoqv_g77JaPRp6ymOHwK4dMsZUF0zl6T</a></p>
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<p><em>I need to pump from the bottom of a 5 ft pool and go 1015 ft above ground so <span style="text-decoration: underline;">total would be about 20 ft</span>.</em><br/> <br/> <cite>Steve R said:</cite></p>
<blockquote cite="http://community.theaquaponicsource.com/forum/topics/can-anyone-explain-the-ben-glenn-aquazen?id=4778851%3ATopic%3A594896&page=2#4778851Comment622481"><div><div class="xg_user_generated"><p>You are going to need an awfully big pump to pump up 1015 feet. </p>
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</blockquote> I watched a few videos with…tag:aquaponicgardening.ning.com,2016-01-28:4778851:Comment:6226532016-01-28T21:45:28.667ZBrian Rascohttps://aquaponicgardening.ning.com/profile/BrianRasco
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<p>I watched a few videos with Glenn in them showing his work. His pumps are definitely geyser pumps and they work great. I did actually mean the fill/drain cycle btw. Anyway, I see now that trying to match up the geyser pump slug to a fill/drain cycle is not going to work since you need a slow fill and a fast drain. The way Glenn does his systems is simple enough and I'll go in that direction. I am trying to design around a sustainable methodology and since the air flow is the sole…</p>
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<p>I watched a few videos with Glenn in them showing his work. His pumps are definitely geyser pumps and they work great. I did actually mean the fill/drain cycle btw. Anyway, I see now that trying to match up the geyser pump slug to a fill/drain cycle is not going to work since you need a slow fill and a fast drain. The way Glenn does his systems is simple enough and I'll go in that direction. I am trying to design around a sustainable methodology and since the air flow is the sole power source, I can get air flow from various mechanical means without electricity if necessary. The Amish use air lifts to pump their water up from their wells so I figure it works out well in the long term.</p>
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<p><cite>George said:</cite></p>
<blockquote cite="http://community.theaquaponicsource.com/forum/topics/can-anyone-explain-the-ben-glenn-aquazen?commentId=4778851%3AComment%3A598345#4778851Comment622564"><div><div class="xg_user_generated"><p>You mean the flood and drain cycle, I take it. I definitely pump enough water and lift it high enough with a 40 watt air pump to service a couple of media beds - it's not a geyser. Glenn runs a system of 6 large media beds with one airlift and one siphon (see his video) so the potential for air lift use in aquaponics is rather large. I didn't hear a mention of air lift in the video but my understanding is he uses air lifts in all of his systems. <a href="https://youtu.be/c9B9c_QLD-E" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">https://youtu.be/c9B9c_QLD-E</a><br/> <cite>Brian Rasco said:</cite></p>
<blockquote cite="http://community.theaquaponicsource.com/forum/topics/can-anyone-explain-the-ben-glenn-aquazen?id=4778851%3ATopic%3A594896&page=2#4778851Comment622556"><div class="xg_user_generated"><p> Since pumping water in slugs and cycling a system are the same thing, has anyone got their geyser pump slugs to match up to an acceptable cycling rate? </p>
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</blockquote> You are going to need an awfu…tag:aquaponicgardening.ning.com,2016-01-28:4778851:Comment:6224812016-01-28T20:25:41.542ZSteve Rhttps://aquaponicgardening.ning.com/profile/steveraisner
<p>You are going to need an awfully big pump to pump up 1015 feet. </p>
<p>You are going to need an awfully big pump to pump up 1015 feet. </p>
https://youtu.be/NyupgKYg7bEtag:aquaponicgardening.ning.com,2016-01-28:4778851:Comment:6225652016-01-28T19:38:50.220ZGeorgehttps://aquaponicgardening.ning.com/profile/Geoge
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<p><a href="https://youtu.be/NyupgKYg7bE" target="_blank">https://youtu.be/NyupgKYg7bE</a></p>
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<p><a href="https://youtu.be/NyupgKYg7bE" target="_blank">https://youtu.be/NyupgKYg7bE</a></p>