Bell Siphon problems in paradise - Aquaponic Gardening2024-03-29T10:35:18Zhttps://aquaponicgardening.ning.com/forum/topics/bell-siphon-problems-in-paradise?commentId=4778851%3AComment%3A575507&xg_raw_resources=1&feed=yes&xn_auth=no@ JJ There is a wide concensu…tag:aquaponicgardening.ning.com,2014-08-19:4778851:Comment:5757322014-08-19T08:47:45.242ZJim Fiskhttps://aquaponicgardening.ning.com/profile/JimFisk
<p>@ JJ There is a wide concensus on turn over. Portable farms has tremendous success at flooding only twice in 24hrs. on a timer. You heard that right. Twice a day.</p>
<p>Snorkels are a crutch. There was something you were missing on that siphon. I went thru exactly the same thing and finally found the problem and threw out that noisey snorkeled bell when I did. I mean think about it. If the bottom of your bell is cut right and all your pipes are right with no traps etc. then you should get…</p>
<p>@ JJ There is a wide concensus on turn over. Portable farms has tremendous success at flooding only twice in 24hrs. on a timer. You heard that right. Twice a day.</p>
<p>Snorkels are a crutch. There was something you were missing on that siphon. I went thru exactly the same thing and finally found the problem and threw out that noisey snorkeled bell when I did. I mean think about it. If the bottom of your bell is cut right and all your pipes are right with no traps etc. then you should get far more air coming under the bell and back up the standpipe at "break time" than any snorkel tube could ever handle. Never made sense to me and I was determined and very happy when I figured out what was actually causing the problem on 2 out of 5 siphons. Water was being trapped below the siphon preventing the air from coming back up the standpipe. Just a plumbing 101 issue as it turned out.<br/> <br/> <cite>Jim Joy said:</cite></p>
<blockquote cite="http://community.theaquaponicsource.com/forum/topics/bell-siphon-problems-in-paradise?commentId=4778851%3AComment%3A575658&xg_source=msg_com_forum#4778851Comment575658"><div><div class="xg_user_generated"><p>One other variable is how many times you turn over the fish tank water. If too slow, ammonia will start to build up. Test to verify for a couple of weeks. If that starts happening, increase the water turn over rate by pumping more water into the beds. My 150 gallon system gets turned over four times an hour to keep the water quality good - .25 to 1 ppm ammonia. </p>
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<p>If pumping faster makes the problem of the siphon not stopping again, add a snorkel to suddenly break the vacuum under the bell cap. I have one siphon that has worked perfectly since the first day. A second was nothing but trouble requiring weeks of fiddling with it. A snorkel fixed it's problem of not stopping. </p>
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<p>Good luck.</p>
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</blockquote> One other variable is how man…tag:aquaponicgardening.ning.com,2014-08-19:4778851:Comment:5756582014-08-19T04:22:18.931ZJim Joyhttps://aquaponicgardening.ning.com/profile/JimJoy
<p>One other variable is how many times you turn over the fish tank water. If too slow, ammonia will start to build up. Test to verify for a couple of weeks. If that starts happening, increase the water turn over rate by pumping more water into the beds. My 150 gallon system gets turned over four times an hour to keep the water quality good - .25 to 1 ppm ammonia. </p>
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<p>If pumping faster makes the problem of the siphon not stopping again, add a snorkel to suddenly break the…</p>
<p>One other variable is how many times you turn over the fish tank water. If too slow, ammonia will start to build up. Test to verify for a couple of weeks. If that starts happening, increase the water turn over rate by pumping more water into the beds. My 150 gallon system gets turned over four times an hour to keep the water quality good - .25 to 1 ppm ammonia. </p>
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<p>If pumping faster makes the problem of the siphon not stopping again, add a snorkel to suddenly break the vacuum under the bell cap. I have one siphon that has worked perfectly since the first day. A second was nothing but trouble requiring weeks of fiddling with it. A snorkel fixed it's problem of not stopping. </p>
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<p>Good luck.</p> Hell yes! I just sent a reque…tag:aquaponicgardening.ning.com,2014-08-18:4778851:Comment:5754932014-08-18T20:32:33.972ZJim Fiskhttps://aquaponicgardening.ning.com/profile/JimFisk
<p>Hell yes! I just sent a request to you. I never tire of helping people get-er-done. I just posted a blog on our SLO so ck it out. It might be of some help as well. This is by far the best forum around with the best folks that love to help.</p>
<p>Hell yes! I just sent a request to you. I never tire of helping people get-er-done. I just posted a blog on our SLO so ck it out. It might be of some help as well. This is by far the best forum around with the best folks that love to help.</p> Ahhhhhh! This is fantastic! B…tag:aquaponicgardening.ning.com,2014-08-18:4778851:Comment:5754892014-08-18T20:11:51.604ZN.G.https://aquaponicgardening.ning.com/profile/NG
<p>Ahhhhhh! This is fantastic! Bell siphon music to my ears! Thank you Jim!!!! You are a genius. I picked up those pieces, the T piece for the downspout and the 3/4" to 1 1/4" funnel (It was the exact part number you said) and at first it started really nice but didn't stop, BUT that was when I had the pump turned all the way up. When I decreased the flow in the pump it drained and gurgled and filled again just like it should!!! I love it! I think now I just need to find the sweet spot flow? …</p>
<p>Ahhhhhh! This is fantastic! Bell siphon music to my ears! Thank you Jim!!!! You are a genius. I picked up those pieces, the T piece for the downspout and the 3/4" to 1 1/4" funnel (It was the exact part number you said) and at first it started really nice but didn't stop, BUT that was when I had the pump turned all the way up. When I decreased the flow in the pump it drained and gurgled and filled again just like it should!!! I love it! I think now I just need to find the sweet spot flow? My wee one has been anxiously awaiting fish as I promised her so she is supper thankful and I don't have anyone at home to bounce ideas with. Thank you so much. Thank you to everyone :) Can I add you to my friend list on here?</p> Lowes # for the adapter is 23…tag:aquaponicgardening.ning.com,2014-08-18:4778851:Comment:5754772014-08-18T16:45:43.483ZJim Fiskhttps://aquaponicgardening.ning.com/profile/JimFisk
<p>Lowes # for the adapter is 23914 and costs .96.<br></br> <br></br> <cite>N.G. said:</cite></p>
<blockquote cite="http://community.theaquaponicsource.com/forum/topics/bell-siphon-problems-in-paradise?xg_source=activity&id=4778851%3ATopic%3A575266&page=2#4778851Comment575541"><div><div class="xg_user_generated"><p>I have a 1" funnel on the top. It would be nice if it started faster than it is. I will give that a try if I can find one. Thank you!!!!</p>
<p><br></br> <br></br> <cite>Jim Fisk…</cite></p>
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<p>Lowes # for the adapter is 23914 and costs .96.<br/> <br/> <cite>N.G. said:</cite></p>
<blockquote cite="http://community.theaquaponicsource.com/forum/topics/bell-siphon-problems-in-paradise?xg_source=activity&id=4778851%3ATopic%3A575266&page=2#4778851Comment575541"><div><div class="xg_user_generated"><p>I have a 1" funnel on the top. It would be nice if it started faster than it is. I will give that a try if I can find one. Thank you!!!!</p>
<p><br/> <br/> <cite>Jim Fisk said:</cite></p>
<blockquote cite="http://community.theaquaponicsource.com/forum/topics/bell-siphon-problems-in-paradise?commentId=4778851%3AComment%3A575297&xg_source=msg_com_forum#4778851Comment575297"><div><div class="xg_user_generated"><p>N.G. Your elbows are fine. Just test that bell cap for leaks or replace it with a real cap and not the cheap "test" caps. The only other change might be the 3/4" to 1 1/4" funnel top. I can't tell how big yours is. But if your siphon is starting fast then I say you have an air leak in that bell.<br/> <br/><cite><br/></cite></p>
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</blockquote> That is my only crit of Affna…tag:aquaponicgardening.ning.com,2014-08-18:4778851:Comment:5754762014-08-18T16:37:36.655ZJim Fiskhttps://aquaponicgardening.ning.com/profile/JimFisk
<p>That is my only crit of Affnan's site. The weeds. My eyes glazed over as well when I first started following his advice. Hard to get past the weeds. Genius nonetheless. I am not sure even he understands the importance of the air coming back up the downtube at "break" time. Try shortening your pipes below AND try one 90 rather than 2. If that works but you still need to direct it down or to the side then add a T before the second 90 with the side port aimed up for more air getting back in…</p>
<p>That is my only crit of Affnan's site. The weeds. My eyes glazed over as well when I first started following his advice. Hard to get past the weeds. Genius nonetheless. I am not sure even he understands the importance of the air coming back up the downtube at "break" time. Try shortening your pipes below AND try one 90 rather than 2. If that works but you still need to direct it down or to the side then add a T before the second 90 with the side port aimed up for more air getting back in there between 90s. Run an air vent up from the T. Venting at the right spot is perhaps the most overlooked piece of the puzzle. <span style="text-decoration: underline;">ALSO you may need to run a pump bypass so you can regulate the flow without loading or restricting the pump. Your last problem there could just be too much flow.</span><br/> <br/> <cite>N.G. said:</cite></p>
<blockquote cite="http://community.theaquaponicsource.com/forum/topics/bell-siphon-problems-in-paradise?commentId=4778851%3AComment%3A575541&xg_source=msg_com_forum#4778851Comment575298"><div><div class="xg_user_generated"><p>Jim and Jim, I switched out the caps and that definately solved my problem of not siphoning completely because it did drain all the way down as it should and I started rejoicing a little early. The only problem now, is it doesn't gurgle like it should when it gets to the end and the siphon never stops. I also tried the 3/4" to 1 1/2" inch elbow reducer on the down spout but that did not help it drain. It was definately the cap!! I just want to say how grateful I am for everyone's suggestions. As I respect Affnan's design and principles physics was never my favorite and some of the diagrams and long explanations seem to go right over. You guys have been so very helpful and I really appreciate all the time, expertise and explanations. I have to ask one other thing. I will do some research but does anyone have any suggestions of how to stop my siphon???</p>
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</blockquote> I have a 1" funnel on the top…tag:aquaponicgardening.ning.com,2014-08-18:4778851:Comment:5755412014-08-18T16:16:07.763ZN.G.https://aquaponicgardening.ning.com/profile/NG
<p>I have a 1" funnel on the top. It would be nice if it started faster than it is. I will give that a try if I can find one. Thank you!!!!</p>
<p><br></br> <br></br> <cite>Jim Fisk said:</cite></p>
<blockquote cite="http://community.theaquaponicsource.com/forum/topics/bell-siphon-problems-in-paradise?commentId=4778851%3AComment%3A575297&xg_source=msg_com_forum#4778851Comment575297"><div><div class="xg_user_generated"><p>N.G. Your elbows are fine. Just test that bell cap for leaks or replace it…</p>
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<p>I have a 1" funnel on the top. It would be nice if it started faster than it is. I will give that a try if I can find one. Thank you!!!!</p>
<p><br/> <br/> <cite>Jim Fisk said:</cite></p>
<blockquote cite="http://community.theaquaponicsource.com/forum/topics/bell-siphon-problems-in-paradise?commentId=4778851%3AComment%3A575297&xg_source=msg_com_forum#4778851Comment575297"><div><div class="xg_user_generated"><p>N.G. Your elbows are fine. Just test that bell cap for leaks or replace it with a real cap and not the cheap "test" caps. The only other change might be the 3/4" to 1 1/4" funnel top. I can't tell how big yours is. But if your siphon is starting fast then I say you have an air leak in that bell.<br/> <br/><cite><br/></cite></p>
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</blockquote> Jim and Jim, I switched out t…tag:aquaponicgardening.ning.com,2014-08-18:4778851:Comment:5752982014-08-18T16:06:24.601ZN.G.https://aquaponicgardening.ning.com/profile/NG
<p>Jim and Jim, I switched out the caps and that definately solved my problem of not siphoning completely because it did drain all the way down as it should and I started rejoicing a little early. The only problem now, is it doesn't gurgle like it should when it gets to the end and the siphon never stops. I also tried the 3/4" to 1 1/2" inch elbow reducer on the down spout but that did not help it drain. It was definately the cap!! I just want to say how grateful I am for everyone's…</p>
<p>Jim and Jim, I switched out the caps and that definately solved my problem of not siphoning completely because it did drain all the way down as it should and I started rejoicing a little early. The only problem now, is it doesn't gurgle like it should when it gets to the end and the siphon never stops. I also tried the 3/4" to 1 1/2" inch elbow reducer on the down spout but that did not help it drain. It was definately the cap!! I just want to say how grateful I am for everyone's suggestions. As I respect Affnan's design and principles physics was never my favorite and some of the diagrams and long explanations seem to go right over. You guys have been so very helpful and I really appreciate all the time, expertise and explanations. I have to ask one other thing. I will do some research but does anyone have any suggestions of how to stop my siphon???</p> N.G. Your elbows are fine. Ju…tag:aquaponicgardening.ning.com,2014-08-18:4778851:Comment:5752972014-08-18T16:01:30.804ZJim Fiskhttps://aquaponicgardening.ning.com/profile/JimFisk
<p>N.G. Your elbows are fine. Just test that bell cap for leaks or replace it with a real cap and not the cheap "test" caps. The only other change might be the 3/4" to 1 1/4" funnel top. I can't tell how big yours is. But if your siphon is starting fast then I say you have an air leak in that bell.<br></br> <br></br> <cite>Jonathan Kadish NYC AA Chair said:…</cite></p>
<p>N.G. Your elbows are fine. Just test that bell cap for leaks or replace it with a real cap and not the cheap "test" caps. The only other change might be the 3/4" to 1 1/4" funnel top. I can't tell how big yours is. But if your siphon is starting fast then I say you have an air leak in that bell.<br/> <br/> <cite>Jonathan Kadish NYC AA Chair said:</cite></p>
<blockquote cite="http://community.theaquaponicsource.com/forum/topics/bell-siphon-problems-in-paradise?xg_source=msg_com_forum&id=4778851%3ATopic%3A575266&page=2#4778851Comment575531"><div><div class="xg_user_generated"><p>Yes, usually I go from 1/2 to 3/4 inch. It may be fine to go from 3/4 to 1 inch. You can try different configurations just as long as you are making it so the water doesn't completely fill the pipe below the grow bed<br/> <br/> <cite>N.G. said:</cite></p>
<blockquote cite="http://community.theaquaponicsource.com/forum/topics/bell-siphon-problems-in-paradise?commentId=4778851%3AComment%3A575287#4778851Comment575524"><div><div class="xg_user_generated"><p>Jonathan, do you mean an elbow that is 3/4" on one side and 1 1/2 inch on the other? Then use 1 1/2" pvc for my horizontal leading to the fish tank? I just want to be sure I'm understanding that right. Thanks! I'll do some searching at the hardware store.</p>
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</blockquote> Yes, usually I go from 1/2 to…tag:aquaponicgardening.ning.com,2014-08-18:4778851:Comment:5755312014-08-18T13:30:24.353ZJonathan Kadish NYC AA Chairhttps://aquaponicgardening.ning.com/profile/JonathanKadish
<p>Yes, usually I go from 1/2 to 3/4 inch. It may be fine to go from 3/4 to 1 inch. You can try different configurations just as long as you are making it so the water doesn't completely fill the pipe below the grow bed<br></br> <br></br> <cite>N.G. said:</cite></p>
<blockquote cite="http://community.theaquaponicsource.com/forum/topics/bell-siphon-problems-in-paradise?commentId=4778851%3AComment%3A575287#4778851Comment575524"><div><div class="xg_user_generated"><p>Jonathan, do you mean an elbow that…</p>
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<p>Yes, usually I go from 1/2 to 3/4 inch. It may be fine to go from 3/4 to 1 inch. You can try different configurations just as long as you are making it so the water doesn't completely fill the pipe below the grow bed<br/> <br/> <cite>N.G. said:</cite></p>
<blockquote cite="http://community.theaquaponicsource.com/forum/topics/bell-siphon-problems-in-paradise?commentId=4778851%3AComment%3A575287#4778851Comment575524"><div><div class="xg_user_generated"><p>Jonathan, do you mean an elbow that is 3/4" on one side and 1 1/2 inch on the other? Then use 1 1/2" pvc for my horizontal leading to the fish tank? I just want to be sure I'm understanding that right. Thanks! I'll do some searching at the hardware store.</p>
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