Basement - no sunlight. - Aquaponic Gardening2024-03-29T05:01:49Zhttps://aquaponicgardening.ning.com/forum/topics/basement-no-sunlight?commentId=4778851%3AComment%3A356762&feed=yes&xn_auth=noIf it works for you Keith, th…tag:aquaponicgardening.ning.com,2012-06-29:4778851:Comment:3567852012-06-29T23:05:24.077ZVlad Jovanovichttps://aquaponicgardening.ning.com/profile/VladJovanovic
<p>If it works for you Keith, that's what counts.</p>
<p>I've never ever been able to get more than 6-7 months out of any fluoro tube where it was the only light source (on 16-24 hours per 24 hour period). My plants pretty much slow down or stall and take forever to grow, which changes noticeably once I replace the tubes, even though they look as bright as the day I got them.</p>
<p>I still use T-8's as well (36Watt GE Daylight mostly...all the tubes I've gotten here have been 36Watts... so my…</p>
<p>If it works for you Keith, that's what counts.</p>
<p>I've never ever been able to get more than 6-7 months out of any fluoro tube where it was the only light source (on 16-24 hours per 24 hour period). My plants pretty much slow down or stall and take forever to grow, which changes noticeably once I replace the tubes, even though they look as bright as the day I got them.</p>
<p>I still use T-8's as well (36Watt GE Daylight mostly...all the tubes I've gotten here have been 36Watts... so my bad) but they've been relegated to sprouting lettuce and greens. They will grow stuff, just not real well after things get to a certain stage of developement. They do better ODNO'd but then they consume more electricity. I compared how long it took for a crop to go from seed to harvest, size and weight...and well, it turned out that I sure wasn't saving much by using them...but if you're happy with the results your getting, then that is what matters. You can't beat the price of the T-8's. Tubes here cost me $1.50. Fixtures can be had for free or dirt cheap. T-5's and their fixtures are a heck of a lot more and the price quickly adds up and just as quickly become not worth it. I've gotten rid of all my T-5's. I'm a much bigger fan of T-8's than T-5's (again because the costs of using the proper amount of T-5's to grow well just aren't justifiable when compared to HID's) . I don't know how you're getting 1.5 years of plant usable light out of those T-8 tubes, but sure would like to know<img src="http://www.bkserv.net/images/Grin.gif"/>.</p>
<p>I like my PL-L's <a href="http://aquaponicscommunity.com/group/artificiallighting/forum/topics/pl-l-lighting">http://aquaponicscommunity.com/group/artificiallighting/forum/topics/pl-l-lighting</a> but would not use them to light up an entire IBC grow area as again HID's would still be more cost effective. I guess everything has it's place... I suggested earlier would sooner use the T-8's because of the costs (especially ODNO) or HID's. I do not enjoy adjusting that many chains,that frequently, but the light pulleys help a bit...</p>
<p>Honestly, I'm happiest when I can use the sun. </p>
<p>Like David alluded to, growing indoors with no or little sunlight pretty much sucks and is expensive, except in specific circumstances (free or <em>very</em> cheap electricity, or a high value crop that off-sets the costs). But the joy of having your own fresh veggies in the dead of winter can go quite a long ways as well.</p>
<p><br/> <br/> <cite>Keith Rowan said:</cite></p>
<blockquote cite="http://aquaponicscommunity.com/forum/topics/basement-no-sunlight?page=2&commentId=4778851%3AComment%3A356918&x=1#4778851Comment356776"><div><div class="xg_user_generated"><p>i know you weren't picking on me.. but the lights are 32watts..i just double checked, i use half "cool" and half "warm"</p>
<p>fixtures were 12 bucks (with hanging chains) - easy to adjust with the chains.. i do have 1 400watt hps light that i used for a bit, but i'm going for low energy usage.. i "cleaned" one set of lights that were in use for 1.5 years, and will be using them when i finish the small system, haven't changed bulbs unless they burn out</p>
<p>so 64 watts per fixture, 3 fixtures, thats 192 watts each for 2 gb's, and one @ 256watts..</p>
<p>i'm sure that there are "better" ways, but they all cost a bit too much for me at this point.. both fixture wise, and energy usage.. it all depends on what you want to get out of your system, and how much you can put into it..</p>
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</blockquote> Those T5s wont do anywhere ne…tag:aquaponicgardening.ning.com,2012-06-29:4778851:Comment:3569182012-06-29T20:26:11.568ZDavidhttps://aquaponicgardening.ning.com/profile/CommunityAP
Those T5s wont do anywhere near enough light for anything more than small heads of lettuce. I have a 400 watt HPS/MH switchable that I used indoors for a 4 tote DWC AP setup. After I got the 150 dollar power bill I started looking for T5s like you. You will need at least 3 fixtures per tote or 12 bulbs. You arent saving over the HPS. For that price you could find a small lot like we did. When you want to grow fruiting plants you will need both bulbs. The only time growing indoors is cost…
Those T5s wont do anywhere near enough light for anything more than small heads of lettuce. I have a 400 watt HPS/MH switchable that I used indoors for a 4 tote DWC AP setup. After I got the 150 dollar power bill I started looking for T5s like you. You will need at least 3 fixtures per tote or 12 bulbs. You arent saving over the HPS. For that price you could find a small lot like we did. When you want to grow fruiting plants you will need both bulbs. The only time growing indoors is cost effective when you are growing a specific cash crop called weed. i know you weren't picking on…tag:aquaponicgardening.ning.com,2012-06-29:4778851:Comment:3567762012-06-29T19:47:38.216ZKeith Rowanhttps://aquaponicgardening.ning.com/profile/KeithRowan
<p>i know you weren't picking on me.. but the lights are 32watts..i just double checked, i use half "cool" and half "warm"</p>
<p>fixtures were 12 bucks (with hanging chains) - easy to adjust with the chains.. i do have 1 400watt hps light that i used for a bit, but i'm going for low energy usage.. i "cleaned" one set of lights that were in use for 1.5 years, and will be using them when i finish the small system, haven't changed bulbs unless they burn out</p>
<p>so 64 watts per fixture, 3…</p>
<p>i know you weren't picking on me.. but the lights are 32watts..i just double checked, i use half "cool" and half "warm"</p>
<p>fixtures were 12 bucks (with hanging chains) - easy to adjust with the chains.. i do have 1 400watt hps light that i used for a bit, but i'm going for low energy usage.. i "cleaned" one set of lights that were in use for 1.5 years, and will be using them when i finish the small system, haven't changed bulbs unless they burn out</p>
<p>so 64 watts per fixture, 3 fixtures, thats 192 watts each for 2 gb's, and one @ 256watts..</p>
<p>i'm sure that there are "better" ways, but they all cost a bit too much for me at this point.. both fixture wise, and energy usage.. it all depends on what you want to get out of your system, and how much you can put into it..</p>
<p> </p> There is no way possible that…tag:aquaponicgardening.ning.com,2012-06-29:4778851:Comment:3569132012-06-29T19:46:52.805ZVlad Jovanovichttps://aquaponicgardening.ning.com/profile/VladJovanovic
<p>There is no way possible that two bulbs of any existing T-5's per bed is gonna even come close to cutting it. (unless you are content with a mowhawk growing style...you would be robbing yourself of about 2/3rds of your grow bed...and there is not a thing on the planet that this guy (or anyone) can do to make the PAR "last longer". PAR is what you are after, NOT the humanly visible spectrum. In a system with no sun or other lighting tubes will about 6 months tops. That's just how it is.…</p>
<p>There is no way possible that two bulbs of any existing T-5's per bed is gonna even come close to cutting it. (unless you are content with a mowhawk growing style...you would be robbing yourself of about 2/3rds of your grow bed...and there is not a thing on the planet that this guy (or anyone) can do to make the PAR "last longer". PAR is what you are after, NOT the humanly visible spectrum. In a system with no sun or other lighting tubes will about 6 months tops. That's just how it is. Anyone who tells you otherwise is either lying (in order to sell you something) or a dumbass.</p>
<p>You can run the tubes at a lower wattage using a different ballast rig to "create a longer lasting system", but that's for office lighting type applications. Why you would want to take a "weak-ish" grow light and make it weaker to gain something that does you no good for your intended purposes is beyond me. It's no good to make the 'system' (I'm guessing he means tubes) last longer, when you'll be changing them out after 6 months either way? (Again, because of PAR)...A complete 400Watt HID kit with everything included, brand spanking new, should run you about 120 bucks. </p>
<p>But do what you gotta do...</p>
<p>A good and efficient tower strategy might be be to make them 'one sided'... "triangulate" them so that the growing sides are facing one another and use a four foot vertically mounted T-5 or PL-L or HID in the middle between the three of them. Don't under estimate how important good lighting is in an indoor basement application. There is a reason lighting is the single biggest expense when growing indoors...</p>
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<p></p> This is what I was thinking a…tag:aquaponicgardening.ning.com,2012-06-29:4778851:Comment:3568312012-06-29T19:02:39.554ZScott W Fhttps://aquaponicgardening.ning.com/profile/ScottWF
<p>This is what I was thinking as well. I did find one ballast that can be dimmed as low as 250. I am going to make the pvc pocket towers, alternating sides. I think in my situation, as much as I want to use an HID - unless I can find a few 400's to hang I may have to go with T-5's. I found a guy locally who modifies these lights and has created a longer lasting system. This is what I gathered from him - and they run about $85 per 2 bulb fixture. The idea of having one light over one bed and…</p>
<p>This is what I was thinking as well. I did find one ballast that can be dimmed as low as 250. I am going to make the pvc pocket towers, alternating sides. I think in my situation, as much as I want to use an HID - unless I can find a few 400's to hang I may have to go with T-5's. I found a guy locally who modifies these lights and has created a longer lasting system. This is what I gathered from him - and they run about $85 per 2 bulb fixture. The idea of having one light over one bed and NOT having to dangle them 2" from the leaves is much more enticing. I really want to do this as cheaply as possible - as much DIY as possible. But it also needs to work and be practical for the average person to pull off. I was surprised at how many 1000W lights are on craigslist here in Rochester.</p> Honestly, I think that may be…tag:aquaponicgardening.ning.com,2012-06-29:4778851:Comment:3570072012-06-29T18:50:15.143ZVlad Jovanovichttps://aquaponicgardening.ning.com/profile/VladJovanovic
<p>Honestly, I think that may be way more than you need, and with a low ceiling, could in certain scenarios be troublesome. An IBC's dimensions are like 1 metre by 1.2 metres...400-600Watts is <em>plenty...</em>the leafy green IBC (if you arrange it that way) could get by with 250Watts (400Watts maximum and even that's a lot)...how tall are your towers? And how many "faces" do the towers have? Are there plants 360 degrees around or on just one linear side (like a ZipGrow tower)?</p>
<p>Honestly, I think that may be way more than you need, and with a low ceiling, could in certain scenarios be troublesome. An IBC's dimensions are like 1 metre by 1.2 metres...400-600Watts is <em>plenty...</em>the leafy green IBC (if you arrange it that way) could get by with 250Watts (400Watts maximum and even that's a lot)...how tall are your towers? And how many "faces" do the towers have? Are there plants 360 degrees around or on just one linear side (like a ZipGrow tower)?</p> So there is a person locally…tag:aquaponicgardening.ning.com,2012-06-29:4778851:Comment:3568282012-06-29T17:58:20.161ZScott W Fhttps://aquaponicgardening.ning.com/profile/ScottWF
<p>So there is a person locally selling 3 1000W HPS Lights with ballasts for $200 per light. If I were to have 3 IBC beds and a 3 vertical strawberry tower system - would this work? Thoughts?</p>
<p>So there is a person locally selling 3 1000W HPS Lights with ballasts for $200 per light. If I were to have 3 IBC beds and a 3 vertical strawberry tower system - would this work? Thoughts?</p> I don't want to sound like th…tag:aquaponicgardening.ning.com,2012-06-29:4778851:Comment:3570012012-06-29T17:05:03.914ZVlad Jovanovichttps://aquaponicgardening.ning.com/profile/VladJovanovic
<p>I don't want to sound like the poster child for HID lighting (there are a number of us on this forum that do) but over the decades I've used many different light options...I've ran the numbers many times, for myself, for clients and for friends (though for friends, I suggest putting it down own paper for yourself, then have someone (usually me) point out the stuff they forgot, if they forgot something). HID hands down...If someone has an argument that will hold water that shows otherwise I'd…</p>
<p>I don't want to sound like the poster child for HID lighting (there are a number of us on this forum that do) but over the decades I've used many different light options...I've ran the numbers many times, for myself, for clients and for friends (though for friends, I suggest putting it down own paper for yourself, then have someone (usually me) point out the stuff they forgot, if they forgot something). HID hands down...If someone has an argument that will hold water that shows otherwise I'd would earnestly love to hear it. This has been gone over to death in other threads and on other forums, and in 'real life' late into the night (half drunk) debates with other growers. Barring an application like a stealth marijuana grow inside an office filing cabinet...HID's are the way to grow. Cheaper, less hassle, grows plants better. Plain and simple.</p>
<p>Keith (not to pick on him or anything, many folks are doing the same or similar) is using what? 4 pairs of 32Watt T-8's (though I'm pretty sure he meant to say 36Watt T-8's) for his leafy greens. That's 288Watts, 4 fixtures (and accessories, chains, electrical chords etc...) 4 fixtures that you have to keep adjusting to keep within 2" of your plants and not burn them and 16 bulb replacements a year etc...etc...etc...<strong>vs</strong>. a 250 MH bulb and ballast with a bulb that you replace every 2 years. And don't have to keep moving (daily or every other during growth spurts) the light to within 2" of the tops of your plants. Seriously, see what stuff costs in your area or on craiglist put it all down and see what you come up with. Just the 'dollars and cents'. Then do the same with all the other stuff (convenience, time, lumens per Watt... blablabla). For tomatoes or anything with a canopy you have to get a little creative with the way you hang fixtures. Vertical lighting becomes attractive...and a necessity with fluoros...</p>
<p>I like the old style magnetic ballasts (I prefer copper windings to silicone diodes... and because they hardly ever break. And when/if they do break you can fix them with a 10-20 dollar purchase, or a capacitor you pull out of an old TV set you have lying around in the garage or whatever...instead of having to replace the entire ballast) and I like to use all Phillips brand stuff, but that just me. There are other reputable manufacturers out there...</p>
<p>Sorry for the rambling barrage of half formed ideas...this stuff has been gone over in great detail in a number other threads.</p>
<p>Haha...tuna salad<img src="http://www.bkserv.net/images/Grin.gif"/> (with a side of Fukushima dolphin)...</p>
<p><br/> <cite>Scott W F said:</cite></p>
<blockquote cite="http://aquaponicscommunity.com/forum/topics/basement-no-sunlight?page=1&commentId=4778851%3AComment%3A356697&x=1#4778851Comment356762"><div><div class="xg_user_generated"><p>Wow - I am really completely at a stand still on what to do. </p>
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</blockquote> Hahatag:aquaponicgardening.ning.com,2012-06-29:4778851:Comment:3566972012-06-29T16:13:47.824ZScott W Fhttps://aquaponicgardening.ning.com/profile/ScottWF
<p>Haha</p>
<p>Haha</p> Lol... you could just use tha…tag:aquaponicgardening.ning.com,2012-06-29:4778851:Comment:3567642012-06-29T16:13:10.429ZJonathan Kadish NYC AA Chairhttps://aquaponicgardening.ning.com/profile/JonathanKadish
<p>Lol... you could just use that lettuce for tuna salad .<br></br> <br></br> <cite>Vlad Jovanovic said:</cite></p>
<blockquote cite="http://aquaponicscommunity.com/forum/topics/basement-no-sunlight?commentId=4778851%3AComment%3A356761&xg_source=msg_com_forum#4778851Comment356761"><div><div class="xg_user_generated"><p><img src="http://www.bkserv.net/images/Smile.gif"></img> ...</p>
<p>Oh yeah, I guess I should add that other than the issues of cost, efficiency,maintenance, etc...another big reason I wont use fluoro lighting above the big AP…</p>
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<p>Lol... you could just use that lettuce for tuna salad .<br/> <br/> <cite>Vlad Jovanovic said:</cite></p>
<blockquote cite="http://aquaponicscommunity.com/forum/topics/basement-no-sunlight?commentId=4778851%3AComment%3A356761&xg_source=msg_com_forum#4778851Comment356761"><div><div class="xg_user_generated"><p><img src="http://www.bkserv.net/images/Smile.gif"/>...</p>
<p>Oh yeah, I guess I should add that other than the issues of cost, efficiency,maintenance, etc...another big reason I wont use fluoro lighting above the big AP system (I still use fluoros and PL-L's on some smaller systems) is that I've (twice) been in offices where fluorescent tubes have exploded for no apparent reason. This would be EXTRA bad in an AP setting because of the mercury content of the fluorescent tubes contaminating the system. Very, very bad scenario...Might not ever happen, but if it did, it would be one of those 'dump EVERYTHING (media and all) and totally start over' type of deals...(for me anyways...now people living on Lake Erie may not mind, or may have evolved an immunity to mercury laden food over the years, but for us lesser evolved types... I'd like to keep the possibility of something like that ever happening down to zero<img src="http://www.bkserv.net/images/Smile.gif"/>.</p>
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