Basement Flating Raft System for the City Resident - Aquaponic Gardening2024-03-29T11:21:05Zhttps://aquaponicgardening.ning.com/forum/topics/basement-flating-raft-system-for-the-city-resident?feed=yes&xn_auth=noI use red lava rock in my ebb…tag:aquaponicgardening.ning.com,2013-02-21:4778851:Comment:4405782013-02-21T20:18:54.147ZJake McMillianhttps://aquaponicgardening.ning.com/profile/JakeMcMillian
<p>I use red lava rock in my ebb and flow system. Yes, it is hard on the hands and it can be difficult to get the rocks out of the roots when pulling a plant. I had initially planned on using perlite, but this just floated away. So I did half perlite and topped with lava rock to weigh it down. Now, I occasionally get pieces of perlite clogging my pump. I wish I had gone with expanded clay from the start, seems worth the money looking back.</p>
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<p>However, if you decide to go with red…</p>
<p>I use red lava rock in my ebb and flow system. Yes, it is hard on the hands and it can be difficult to get the rocks out of the roots when pulling a plant. I had initially planned on using perlite, but this just floated away. So I did half perlite and topped with lava rock to weigh it down. Now, I occasionally get pieces of perlite clogging my pump. I wish I had gone with expanded clay from the start, seems worth the money looking back.</p>
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<p>However, if you decide to go with red lava rock I have one important piece of advice: WASH THE ROCKS! Red lava rock has a lot of dust that will cloud your system. Every time I add water to my sumps I stir up silt. I think the only why I could ever get rid of the silt would be to completely change out my water, wash the rocks, and start over.</p> The flow would go something l…tag:aquaponicgardening.ning.com,2012-10-24:4778851:Comment:4111012012-10-24T20:25:52.054ZJonathan Kadish NYC AA Chairhttps://aquaponicgardening.ning.com/profile/JonathanKadish
<p>The flow would go something like like this :</p>
<p>=> Highest Point: Fish tank ==\/</p>
<p>|| Media Bed =bell/loop/u siphon==\/</p>
<p>|| DWC ===> Sump === (pump)==\/</p>
<p>||===========================================================||</p>
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<p>So yes the Media is Ebb and flow. You add water/iron/buffering to your sump. The parts of the system that the water changes levels…</p>
<p>The flow would go something like like this :</p>
<p>=> Highest Point: Fish tank ==\/</p>
<p>|| Media Bed =bell/loop/u siphon==\/</p>
<p>|| DWC ===> Sump === (pump)==\/</p>
<p>||===========================================================||</p>
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<p>So yes the Media is Ebb and flow. You add water/iron/buffering to your sump. The parts of the system that the water changes levels is of course the media bed but also the DWC as the grow bed drains and the pump pumps water to the fish tank. There is so much water volume in the DWC that level changes will hardly be noticed... the fish tank is always full. I think that if you size the media to be the same size or a little larger than your tank you can reduce the size of your pump to replace fish tank volume 1-2x per hour. Given that your growbed of the same size will need 1/3 the water to cycle you should have your growbed flushing 3-5 times an hour.</p>
<p>Worms do fine in water, they breath through their skin and can even live at the bottom of a tank or water if the water is well aerated. You may find that they move around your system like flow out of the siphon into the DWC if you don't have safeguards like screens for filters. You still may want to have a matala filter between the siphon and the DWC, worms will probably live in there too.</p>
<p>A lot of people are doing freshwater prawns in their DWC, they probably won't hurt</p>
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<p><br/> <cite>Sean said:</cite></p>
<blockquote cite="http://community.theaquaponicsource.com/forum/topics/basement-flating-raft-system-for-the-city-resident?commentId=4778851%3AComment%3A410836&xg_source=msg_com_forum#4778851Comment410836"><div><div class="xg_user_generated"><p>Well, you've got me thinking now.</p>
<p>The grow bed before the DWC tank, is it an ebb and flow system? I am trying to get away from that due to the fluctuations in the tank water levels. </p>
<p>If it was a ebb and flow system, it would be very fast due to the high flow of water (1300 gph). Which is not a problem for the plants, but for the red worms? I havent looked into them yet, but i will.</p>
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<p>I have used freshwater shrimp to keep my aquarium tank and it's aquatic plants clean, do you think they would help in this scenario as well?</p>
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</blockquote> Well, you've got me thinking…tag:aquaponicgardening.ning.com,2012-10-24:4778851:Comment:4108362012-10-24T15:30:41.831ZFormulaXhttps://aquaponicgardening.ning.com/profile/Sean
<p>Well, you've got me thinking now.</p>
<p>The grow bed before the DWC tank, is it an ebb and flow system? I am trying to get away from that due to the fluctuations in the tank water levels. </p>
<p>If it was a ebb and flow system, it would be very fast due to the high flow of water (1300 gph). Which is not a problem for the plants, but for the red worms? I havent looked into them yet, but i will.</p>
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<p>I have used freshwater shrimp to keep my aquarium tank and it's aquatic plants…</p>
<p>Well, you've got me thinking now.</p>
<p>The grow bed before the DWC tank, is it an ebb and flow system? I am trying to get away from that due to the fluctuations in the tank water levels. </p>
<p>If it was a ebb and flow system, it would be very fast due to the high flow of water (1300 gph). Which is not a problem for the plants, but for the red worms? I havent looked into them yet, but i will.</p>
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<p>I have used freshwater shrimp to keep my aquarium tank and it's aquatic plants clean, do you think they would help in this scenario as well?</p> Nothing is more passive than…tag:aquaponicgardening.ning.com,2012-10-24:4778851:Comment:4105762012-10-24T03:23:18.403ZJonathan Kadish NYC AA Chairhttps://aquaponicgardening.ning.com/profile/JonathanKadish
<p>Nothing is more passive than a media filled grow bed, but all that filtration is cool and fun. However, If you don't do those additional steps over time the fine solids will settle elsewhere including on the roots of you plants. You can have brown roots which don't get O2 and anaerobic zones where the fine solids build up. This can cause ammonia and nitrite spikes and kill fish. That is why those steps are used, from years of experience of trial and error Rakocy made those…</p>
<p>Nothing is more passive than a media filled grow bed, but all that filtration is cool and fun. However, If you don't do those additional steps over time the fine solids will settle elsewhere including on the roots of you plants. You can have brown roots which don't get O2 and anaerobic zones where the fine solids build up. This can cause ammonia and nitrite spikes and kill fish. That is why those steps are used, from years of experience of trial and error Rakocy made those mistakes.</p>
<p><br/>Sean I don't want to steer you in a particular direction, I'm just sharing what I have learned being a student of the masters. I qualify my real life experience with DWC as zero... yet I have designed my own system based on the work of Rakocy also with some input from Dr. Wilson Leonard and awaiting a building permit for my greenhouse.</p>
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<p>As to lava rock I have no experience, people do use it but often at the bottom of the bed because it is so hard on hands. Fill up the top with expanded shale or expanded clay.</p>
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<p>I also found that as my grow bed matured that the plants stretched much less for light. The latest pepper I grew in it was a monster.</p>
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<p></p> alright i havent tried the wo…tag:aquaponicgardening.ning.com,2012-10-24:4778851:Comment:4105582012-10-24T00:45:59.432ZFormulaXhttps://aquaponicgardening.ning.com/profile/Sean
<p>alright i havent tried the worms yet, that something new to look into. I wasnt trying to mimic his system exactly with all the filtration steps. just doing what i can within my means. the swirl filter is a pretty passive filtration step, that's why i like it.</p>
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<p>would you recommend using lava rock for the majority of the filtering grow bed? i like using it because of the high surface area for the bacteria.</p>
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<p>when i used the HPS light, it was my cayenne pepper…</p>
<p>alright i havent tried the worms yet, that something new to look into. I wasnt trying to mimic his system exactly with all the filtration steps. just doing what i can within my means. the swirl filter is a pretty passive filtration step, that's why i like it.</p>
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<p>would you recommend using lava rock for the majority of the filtering grow bed? i like using it because of the high surface area for the bacteria.</p>
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<p>when i used the HPS light, it was my cayenne pepper plants that really stretched toward the light, stretched so much that they would eventually fall over, so i would prune them back.</p> I have done course work at Ne…tag:aquaponicgardening.ning.com,2012-10-23:4778851:Comment:4106362012-10-23T23:00:59.099ZJonathan Kadish NYC AA Chairhttps://aquaponicgardening.ning.com/profile/JonathanKadish
<p>I have done course work at Nelson & Pade and with Dr Rakocy so I understand the appeal of his system. I disagree with you about how much space UVI filtration method will take up as opposed to a grow bed. The UVI method done correctly requires 4 stages each with their own tank respectively. 1) Clarifier or Swirl filter 2) Bird Netting 3) Matala Filter 4) De-gassing. All of this takes up space ... instead have a grow bed to perform all those functions and grow food to boot. A properly…</p>
<p>I have done course work at Nelson & Pade and with Dr Rakocy so I understand the appeal of his system. I disagree with you about how much space UVI filtration method will take up as opposed to a grow bed. The UVI method done correctly requires 4 stages each with their own tank respectively. 1) Clarifier or Swirl filter 2) Bird Netting 3) Matala Filter 4) De-gassing. All of this takes up space ... instead have a grow bed to perform all those functions and grow food to boot. A properly designed grow bed that is not overloaded with waste, combined with red worms should never or rarely need cleaning.</p>
<p>But hey, as an experiment and homage to Dr Rakocy I can understand the mad scientist in you.</p>
<p>My leafy greens do great with the HPS. I keep the light about 12-18" above the vegetation.</p> Thanks for the review Jon,
I…tag:aquaponicgardening.ning.com,2012-10-23:4778851:Comment:4104822012-10-23T18:55:08.028ZFormulaXhttps://aquaponicgardening.ning.com/profile/Sean
<p>Thanks for the review Jon,</p>
<p>I was more inspired by the UVI system, I wont be doing "high" stocking densities. I do agree with the media bed as a better filtration/clarity method, but to clean that is more invloved compared to opening up a valve at the bottom of a bucket to remove the sludge, and I am limited in space, so adding another grow bed is at least another 2 sq ft. That's why I'm gonna stick with the solid waste filter. I have a 5 gallon bucket as one now and it works good…</p>
<p>Thanks for the review Jon,</p>
<p>I was more inspired by the UVI system, I wont be doing "high" stocking densities. I do agree with the media bed as a better filtration/clarity method, but to clean that is more invloved compared to opening up a valve at the bottom of a bucket to remove the sludge, and I am limited in space, so adding another grow bed is at least another 2 sq ft. That's why I'm gonna stick with the solid waste filter. I have a 5 gallon bucket as one now and it works good enough.</p>
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<p>Aeration in the raft is no problem, I think the air pump i budgeted for had 4 outlet ports.</p>
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<p>Lighting, I had a feeling the watts per sq ft was low. Adding more fixtures is not a problem. You do have to keep the lights closer to the plants, but this system is only going to grow green (non-fruiting) plants. I have a 150W HPS light as well, but my plants always stretched towards it (unhealthily), rather than filling out. I wish there was a bulb that could balance that out.</p>
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<p>Correct me if im wrong, but the HPS bulbs emit light around the red spectrum, which is why they are more for flowering/fruiting plants. Also, growing fruiting plants in a raft system, while possible, is harder because of the size and weight fruiting plants have, compared to lettuce or herbs.</p>
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<p>Im doing this more as a new challenge, and as a showcase for urban growing.</p> The UVI setup is a useful des…tag:aquaponicgardening.ning.com,2012-10-23:4778851:Comment:4104692012-10-23T18:11:27.555ZJonathan Kadish NYC AA Chairhttps://aquaponicgardening.ning.com/profile/JonathanKadish
<p>The UVI setup is a useful design for big systems for say 20000 gallons but doing it for a small 400 gallon system doesn't make a whole lot of sense unless you want to have a high fish density and want to do maintenance every day that this system demands.</p>
<p>You could achieve the same clarity/nutrients in you water (with less fish and thus fish feed) by just running your water through a media filled grow bed before going to your DWC raft - Otherwise known as a hybrid system, which many…</p>
<p>The UVI setup is a useful design for big systems for say 20000 gallons but doing it for a small 400 gallon system doesn't make a whole lot of sense unless you want to have a high fish density and want to do maintenance every day that this system demands.</p>
<p>You could achieve the same clarity/nutrients in you water (with less fish and thus fish feed) by just running your water through a media filled grow bed before going to your DWC raft - Otherwise known as a hybrid system, which many people are doing now. Why not do this?</p>
<p>You will also need aeration in your raft to keep your plant roots happy.</p>
<p>Lighting - 6.4 watts/sf won't be enough. Using T8s the lights have to be just inches away from the plants so you will need alot more bulbs and fixtures to get good results. There are many <a href="http://community.theaquaponicsource.com/forum/topics/nutrition-in-plants-grown-under-lights-vs-sunlight?commentId=4778851%3AComment%3A400682" target="_self">treads</a> here arguing Metal Halide & High Pressure Sodium lights are dollar for dollar more effective per watt than florescent lighting. Also the cost of fixtures and components are comparable. I use 150w HPS for 4sf of grow space and my plants do great and I don't have to worry about mercury contamination if a light breaks. If you want flowering & fruiting plants then you don't really have a choice anyway because florescent won't get you there.</p>
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