Auto Siphon Technology - Aquaponic Gardening2024-03-29T11:28:00Zhttps://aquaponicgardening.ning.com/forum/topics/auto-siphon-technology?feed=yes&xn_auth=noSorry, misunderstood about th…tag:aquaponicgardening.ning.com,2012-01-27:4778851:Comment:2838882012-01-27T03:53:12.102ZChip Pilkingtonhttps://aquaponicgardening.ning.com/profile/ChipPilkington
<p>Sorry, misunderstood about the weep holes.</p>
<p>I wouldn't stick to the "rule of thumb" on diameters. I use the smallest possible, which freely clears the standpipe. I've also gone smaller on the adaptors and have several GB's without adaptors on the standpipe (see Affnan design on his use of adaptors). I'm seeing that they are not necessary (for me) at my fill rates. The siphon actually engages more quickly without adaptors in side by side testing.</p>
<p>I also use a much thinner wall…</p>
<p>Sorry, misunderstood about the weep holes.</p>
<p>I wouldn't stick to the "rule of thumb" on diameters. I use the smallest possible, which freely clears the standpipe. I've also gone smaller on the adaptors and have several GB's without adaptors on the standpipe (see Affnan design on his use of adaptors). I'm seeing that they are not necessary (for me) at my fill rates. The siphon actually engages more quickly without adaptors in side by side testing.</p>
<p>I also use a much thinner wall PVC than SCH40 - it's cheaper and offers more size/clearance possibilities. It's also what happens to be available in Thailand.</p>
<p>Cheers</p> This new design doesn't use a…tag:aquaponicgardening.ning.com,2012-01-27:4778851:Comment:2842262012-01-27T03:21:06.445ZRay Bordelonhttps://aquaponicgardening.ning.com/profile/RayBordelon
<p>This new design doesn't use any weepholes. It uses the same drilled cap/bushing that was shown in the videos but without the weepholes. A 25 to 30 watt pump can handle one line of growbeds. I'll try to do a video in the next couple of days showing how this unit is built. I tried building it with all "off the shelf parts" but I couldn't get it right. I have a small machine shop...that helps. Some things may not seem right, but I did the math. For example, the rule of thumb says use a…</p>
<p>This new design doesn't use any weepholes. It uses the same drilled cap/bushing that was shown in the videos but without the weepholes. A 25 to 30 watt pump can handle one line of growbeds. I'll try to do a video in the next couple of days showing how this unit is built. I tried building it with all "off the shelf parts" but I couldn't get it right. I have a small machine shop...that helps. Some things may not seem right, but I did the math. For example, the rule of thumb says use a bell that is twice the size of the siphon standpipe. I used a 2 inch standpipe with a three inch bell. If you figure the area of the ID on a 2" schedule 40 and then figure the difference in area between the 2" OD and the 3 " sewer pipe ID they are almost equal. Well, within a fraction of an inch. I wouldn't work with a 3" schedule 40 pipe though.</p>
<p>I'l have to give Affnan a look.<br/> <br/> <cite>Chip Pilkington said:</cite></p>
<blockquote cite="http://aquaponicscommunity.com/forum/topics/auto-siphon-technology?id=4778851%3ATopic%3A282035&page=3#4778851Comment284222"><div><div class="xg_user_generated"><p>Very Interesting Ray...</p>
<p>At first, I couldn’t understand why you were going so big on everything…after you described the system you’re building, it looks like you’ll have a significant amount of water to drain off.</p>
<p>I agree with John – for most backyard applications, the most straight-forward, dependable siphon is the “Affnan” design. It can’t be touched. Affnan’s also gone up and down in size, taking into account size/flow with some of his experiments.</p>
<p>Your application exceeds typical backyard capacities I’d say.</p>
<p>I first built and installed my ”Affnan” siphons and they’ve been flawless. Like you, I love to experiment and “tweek” things. I’m conflicted as in my professional life; I’m always encouraging people to NOT fix things that aren’t broke and to focus on the issues actually needing fixing. That said, the AP system offers wonderful “mental health” opportunities…you know, tough day at work…what can I do here to improve this thing…</p>
<p>In the old days, it was pulling weeds. Today for me, it’s additional farming technologies to create the perfect mini-farm.</p>
<p>Sorry, digressed.</p>
<p>One area I have experimented with on the siphons is the weep hole size. The sizes you are describing are very large. With multiple 3/8 holes, your fill rates are significantly affected I would imagine. The tradition siphon has a flow range which fits comfortably into most needs. I like to hit my desired fill times and have increased weep hole size to allow greater flow into the GB to trigger the siphon (I have a couple of fairly small, quickly filled GB’s I was experimenting with). Once again, my overall system is small (2000L) compared to yours.</p>
<p>My question is how much additional pump/flow will you require to fill, given the large and numerous weep holes? With your volume, will this require the next bigger pump size, as well as watts to drive it?</p>
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</blockquote> Very Interesting Ray...
At fi…tag:aquaponicgardening.ning.com,2012-01-27:4778851:Comment:2842222012-01-27T02:43:51.937ZChip Pilkingtonhttps://aquaponicgardening.ning.com/profile/ChipPilkington
<p>Very Interesting Ray...</p>
<p>At first, I couldn’t understand why you were going so big on everything…after you described the system you’re building, it looks like you’ll have a significant amount of water to drain off.</p>
<p>I agree with John – for most backyard applications, the most straight-forward, dependable siphon is the “Affnan” design. It can’t be touched. Affnan’s also gone up and down in size, taking into account size/flow with some of his experiments.</p>
<p>Your application…</p>
<p>Very Interesting Ray...</p>
<p>At first, I couldn’t understand why you were going so big on everything…after you described the system you’re building, it looks like you’ll have a significant amount of water to drain off.</p>
<p>I agree with John – for most backyard applications, the most straight-forward, dependable siphon is the “Affnan” design. It can’t be touched. Affnan’s also gone up and down in size, taking into account size/flow with some of his experiments.</p>
<p>Your application exceeds typical backyard capacities I’d say.</p>
<p>I first built and installed my ”Affnan” siphons and they’ve been flawless. Like you, I love to experiment and “tweek” things. I’m conflicted as in my professional life; I’m always encouraging people to NOT fix things that aren’t broke and to focus on the issues actually needing fixing. That said, the AP system offers wonderful “mental health” opportunities…you know, tough day at work…what can I do here to improve this thing…</p>
<p>In the old days, it was pulling weeds. Today for me, it’s additional farming technologies to create the perfect mini-farm.</p>
<p>Sorry, digressed.</p>
<p>One area I have experimented with on the siphons is the weep hole size. The sizes you are describing are very large. With multiple 3/8 holes, your fill rates are significantly affected I would imagine. The tradition siphon has a flow range which fits comfortably into most needs. I like to hit my desired fill times and have increased weep hole size to allow greater flow into the GB to trigger the siphon (I have a couple of fairly small, quickly filled GB’s I was experimenting with). Once again, my overall system is small (2000L) compared to yours.</p>
<p>My question is how much additional pump/flow will you require to fill, given the large and numerous weep holes? With your volume, will this require the next bigger pump size, as well as watts to drive it?</p> Interesting. Keep sharing th…tag:aquaponicgardening.ning.com,2012-01-27:4778851:Comment:2841242012-01-27T01:58:30.116ZTCLynxhttps://aquaponicgardening.ning.com/profile/TCLynx
<p>Interesting. Keep sharing those results and observations.</p>
<p>Interesting. Keep sharing those results and observations.</p> Hi All,
I wanted to give an u…tag:aquaponicgardening.ning.com,2012-01-27:4778851:Comment:2842172012-01-27T01:52:37.599ZRay Bordelonhttps://aquaponicgardening.ning.com/profile/RayBordelon
<p>Hi All,</p>
<p>I wanted to give an update on the R and D. </p>
<p>I currently have a AP system that consists of an 1800 gal. indoor, inground FT/pond. In my yard I am building 24' rows of GB's as the time and energy allows. My next row of GB's will be 3 - 30" x 96" x 13". The overall length will be 24' and they will share a drain manifold and be controlled by one auto-siphon in by the FT. I want the Siphon to be able to handle a wide range of GB feed rates. The total capacity of the GB's…</p>
<p>Hi All,</p>
<p>I wanted to give an update on the R and D. </p>
<p>I currently have a AP system that consists of an 1800 gal. indoor, inground FT/pond. In my yard I am building 24' rows of GB's as the time and energy allows. My next row of GB's will be 3 - 30" x 96" x 13". The overall length will be 24' and they will share a drain manifold and be controlled by one auto-siphon in by the FT. I want the Siphon to be able to handle a wide range of GB feed rates. The total capacity of the GB's will be 450 gals. If I use the 40% number for the water quantity after the media is added, then they should contain about 180 gallons of water. Most of the time I guess the feed rate to the GB's should be around 300-350 gal/hr. I figure a 2" siphon should drain the GB's in about 12-14 minutes or about 1"/ minute. Does anybody think that might be too fast?</p>
<p>I have now completed what I think is going to be the final version of the Auto siphon. I had an incident that got me rethinking my original prototype/mockup. Everybody knows that I am fascinated by venturi's. Well, I was hanging out in the kitchen and I spotted something called a wine aerator. It's a very cool looking acrylic venturi that works wonderfully and very low pressure. My wife got mad at me when I poured my coffee through it in an effort to make a cappachino. I didn't work but just between you and me it puts a great head on beer.</p>
<p>Anyway, I examined, measured and otherwise scrutinized it...then I made one for me that I could do whatever I wanted with it. So I made this with it: <a href="http://storage.ning.com/topology/rest/1.0/file/get/2772202484?profile=original" target="_self"><img src="http://storage.ning.com/topology/rest/1.0/file/get/2772202484?profile=original" width="360" class="align-full"/></a>I works very well but it's not what I was expecting. The venturi is cool. It kinda sounds like a little motor boat. It doesn't create a lot of vacuum to help start the siphon at very low flow rates. The siphon does start at about 60 g/min which is good for my app. At that rate, my GB's would have about a 3 hour cycle for those cold nights. Without the venturi, I would need a higher flow rate to start the siphon but only marginally higher. The thing that happened unexpectedly was that the siphon breaks cleanly at any flow. When the water level in the 4" pipe reaches the top, the venturi starts working. It pulls a small vacuum on the top of the bell. The air in the venturi tube flows toward the venturi at this time. When the siphon gets started and the water level in the 4"pipe drops the venturi stops working and it then allows the air in the tube to flow the other way. When the siphon stops, this air line equals the pressure and the siphon is completely and permanently stopped, until the next cycle. I have siphon break holes in the bell but they are very unreliable. It seems that in this situation, with a very long 2" pipe feeding the siphon, when the siphon breaks, a slug of water comes back with a rebound or a hammer effect and starts the siphon all over again or puts it into a state of equalibrium. I tested it up to a feed rate of about 1000g/hr. It was almost more than the 2" pipes could carry and the siphon broke cleanly each and every time. </p> Hi Ray,
Thank you for sharin…tag:aquaponicgardening.ning.com,2012-01-24:4778851:Comment:2826312012-01-24T02:24:16.552ZJapan Aquaponics - アクアポニックス 日本https://aquaponicgardening.ning.com/profile/JapanAquaponics
<p>Hi Ray,</p>
<p></p>
<p>Thank you for sharing this idea... I love seeing videos like this... if we don't stop experimenting then we will stand still and get left behind. I think that for some setups this would be good and would be a helpful modification. Cheers Ray.</p>
<p>Hi Ray,</p>
<p></p>
<p>Thank you for sharing this idea... I love seeing videos like this... if we don't stop experimenting then we will stand still and get left behind. I think that for some setups this would be good and would be a helpful modification. Cheers Ray.</p> Let me see if I can find some…tag:aquaponicgardening.ning.com,2012-01-23:4778851:Comment:2823242012-01-23T19:58:37.557ZTCLynxhttps://aquaponicgardening.ning.com/profile/TCLynx
<p>Let me see if I can find some links or the FLOUT.</p>
<p><a href="http://www.aquaponiclynx.com/new-product-flout%C2%AE" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">new-product-flout</a></p>
<p>of course there is my web site.</p>
<p>Now I wasn't trying to drain a grow bed using the FLOUT but here is a blog post about something I tried that didn't quite work</p>
<p><a href="http://www.aquaponiclynx.com/pumperflouternating" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Pumperflouternating</a></p>
<p></p>
<p>and a flout…</p>
<p>Let me see if I can find some links or the FLOUT.</p>
<p><a rel="nofollow" href="http://www.aquaponiclynx.com/new-product-flout%C2%AE" target="_blank">new-product-flout</a></p>
<p>of course there is my web site.</p>
<p>Now I wasn't trying to drain a grow bed using the FLOUT but here is a blog post about something I tried that didn't quite work</p>
<p><a rel="nofollow" href="http://www.aquaponiclynx.com/pumperflouternating" target="_blank">Pumperflouternating</a></p>
<p></p>
<p>and a flout video</p>
<p><iframe width="420" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/mxrBqMxbbS4?wmode=opaque" frameborder="0"></iframe>
</p>
<p></p>
<p>If you want to connect your grow beds together and drain them all at once quickly, the flout can do it. Flow rates from almost nothing up to what the pipe can move by gravity all work with no special modifications or changes or caps or holes or breather tubes.</p>
<p></p>
<p>Only drawback to FLOUTs is they do require a little space to operate, otherwise they are really trouble free.</p>
<p>for replacing siphons on multiple beds, I would install the FLOUT chamber a bit deeper than the beds since the Flout doesn't drain the bottom few inches of water from the chamber.</p> Cory, That is what I am hopin…tag:aquaponicgardening.ning.com,2012-01-23:4778851:Comment:2823172012-01-23T19:13:28.160ZRay Bordelonhttps://aquaponicgardening.ning.com/profile/RayBordelon
<p>Cory, That is what I am hoping. I plan to be off grid in the near future. One of my jobs is that of an electrician and licensed PV solar installer.</p>
<p><br></br> <cite>Cory Cramer said:</cite></p>
<blockquote cite="http://aquaponicscommunity.com/forum/topics/auto-siphon-technology?id=4778851%3ATopic%3A282035&page=2#4778851Comment281899"><div><div class="xg_user_generated"><p>Ray, I think this could be very useful for someone who needs to use a low flow rate, for example, in an off-grid…</p>
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<p>Cory, That is what I am hoping. I plan to be off grid in the near future. One of my jobs is that of an electrician and licensed PV solar installer.</p>
<p><br/> <cite>Cory Cramer said:</cite></p>
<blockquote cite="http://aquaponicscommunity.com/forum/topics/auto-siphon-technology?id=4778851%3ATopic%3A282035&page=2#4778851Comment281899"><div><div class="xg_user_generated"><p>Ray, I think this could be very useful for someone who needs to use a low flow rate, for example, in an off-grid system where energy usage is at a premium. Thanks for posting.You never know what application someone else is working on, this could be just what they need. I don't think you should worry about burdening anyone with redundant info.</p>
<p></p>
<p>I'm not familiar with a FLOUT, TC. I'll have to look that one up.</p>
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</blockquote> Thanks, for asking the right…tag:aquaponicgardening.ning.com,2012-01-23:4778851:Comment:2823122012-01-23T18:59:01.747ZRay Bordelonhttps://aquaponicgardening.ning.com/profile/RayBordelon
<p>Thanks, for asking the right questions. You got my curiosity up and I made time to quickly put together a test...no video though.</p>
<p>I set up the 2" U-siphon with 100% of the flow from a 24 watt 350 gph pump @ 2-2.5 ft. of head. I drilled four 3/8" weep holes and a venturi was completely unnecessary. Without the cap on the downpipe the siphon wouldn't go. I found the cap to be a very good way to start a siphon. It seems that the holes around the perimeter of the bushing allow the…</p>
<p>Thanks, for asking the right questions. You got my curiosity up and I made time to quickly put together a test...no video though.</p>
<p>I set up the 2" U-siphon with 100% of the flow from a 24 watt 350 gph pump @ 2-2.5 ft. of head. I drilled four 3/8" weep holes and a venturi was completely unnecessary. Without the cap on the downpipe the siphon wouldn't go. I found the cap to be a very good way to start a siphon. It seems that the holes around the perimeter of the bushing allow the air that is mixed with the falling water to escape easily. Since, the hole point up.</p>
<p>The siphon broke easily with the end of the former venturi hose submerged in the GB. I think that is also due to fast drain with a 2" siphon. I kinda sounds like a toilet. </p>
<p>It seems as though the only value in the techniques in the videos is for someone that wants a slow fill/fast drain setup.</p>
<p>However, I do believe that the cap is useful.<br/> <br/> <cite>TCLynx said:</cite></p>
<blockquote cite="http://aquaponicscommunity.com/forum/topics/auto-siphon-technology?id=4778851%3ATopic%3A282035&page=2#4778851Comment282142"><div><div class="xg_user_generated"><p>Yep to make it No worries you probably should set up again next weekend and show some videos at the higher flows and demo how different size weep holes and breathers would need to be implemented to handle the different flow rates. See having to do mods every time you adjust your flow rates probably makes it a bit less of a "no worries" type install.</p>
<p>The FLOUT might take up a bit more space though it could be easily done remotly, it doesn't require modifications to operate over pretty much the full range of flows that the drain piping can handle under gravity flow provided the outlet is lower than the Flout itself and is the same size and free draining.</p>
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</blockquote> Ray, I think this could be ve…tag:aquaponicgardening.ning.com,2012-01-23:4778851:Comment:2818992012-01-23T17:28:03.650ZCory Cramerhttps://aquaponicgardening.ning.com/profile/CoryCramer
<p>Ray, I think this could be very useful for someone who needs to use a low flow rate, for example, in an off-grid system where energy usage is at a premium. Thanks for posting.You never know what application someone else is working on, this could be just what they need. I don't think you should worry about burdening anyone with redundant info.</p>
<p></p>
<p>I'm not familiar with a FLOUT, TC. I'll have to look that one up.</p>
<p>Ray, I think this could be very useful for someone who needs to use a low flow rate, for example, in an off-grid system where energy usage is at a premium. Thanks for posting.You never know what application someone else is working on, this could be just what they need. I don't think you should worry about burdening anyone with redundant info.</p>
<p></p>
<p>I'm not familiar with a FLOUT, TC. I'll have to look that one up.</p>