Are tilapia really a healthy food source,Not according to Wake forest researchers.

[Scott lemonds]

http://www.seafoodsource.com/newsarticledetail.aspx?id=892

[AJ Grottke]

Because of all this i ended up buying the only non-gmo/mostly organic fish feed i could find; but it cost me (expensive as hell). The ingredients are:

Organic soybean meal, menhaden fish meal, rice, organic sorghum, organic peas, organic millet, organic oats, organic barley, organic canola oil, organic flaxseed, herring oil, sea salt, organic  carrots, organic blueberries, organic cranberries, organic spinach,  (all “organic” from here) parsley, rose hips dried kelp, dl methionine, calcium phosphate, spirulina, marigold petals, calcim carbonate, vitamine e supplement, choline chloride, ferrous sulfate, niacin riboflavin, copper proteinate, zinc sulphate, vitamine b-12, asorbic acid, vitamine c, taurine manganese-sulphate, nician riboflavin, copper proteinate, copper sulphate, calcium pantothenate, vitamine a, acetate, inositol, folic acid, pyridoxine hydrochloride, thimine mononitrate, vitamine d supplement, rosmary extract, biotin, potassium iodide, cobalt sulphate, sodium selenite

I could not risk ever putting any GMO into my system, so i got this feed.  I like this feed also because it is really diverse, contains medicinal herbs, berries, spirulina, and kelp.  We'll c how the tilapia go for it in a few weeks when i try it.  It has %32 Protein and is a floating pellet.

[TCLynx]

Please keep us posed about the feed and how they take to it.  Where did you get the feed?  How much does it cost?  Is there a web site for it?

[Scott lemonds]

It is a shame you are not feeding that to some jade perch ,or barramundi.Giant salvia is a really top food source for tilapia .Very high concentrations  of proteins and carotene.

AJ Grottke said:

Because of all this i ended up buying the only non-gmo/mostly organic fish feed i could find; but it cost me (expensive as hell). The ingredients are:

Organic soybean meal, menhaden fish meal, rice, organic sorghum, organic peas, organic millet, organic oats, organic barley, organic canola oil, organic flaxseed, herring oil, sea salt, organic  carrots, organic blueberries, organic cranberries, organic spinach,  (all “organic” from here) parsley, rose hips dried kelp, dl methionine, calcium phosphate, spirulina, marigold petals, calcim carbonate, vitamine e supplement, choline chloride, ferrous sulfate, niacin riboflavin, copper proteinate, zinc sulphate, vitamine b-12, asorbic acid, vitamine c, taurine manganese-sulphate, nician riboflavin, copper proteinate, copper sulphate, calcium pantothenate, vitamine a, acetate, inositol, folic acid, pyridoxine hydrochloride, thimine mononitrate, vitamine d supplement, rosmary extract, biotin, potassium iodide, cobalt sulphate, sodium selenite

I could not risk ever putting any GMO into my system, so i got this feed.  I like this feed also because it is really diverse, contains medicinal herbs, berries, spirulina, and kelp.  We'll c how the tilapia go for it in a few weeks when i try it.  It has %32 Protein and is a floating pellet.

[Kellen Weissenbach]

If the soybeans came from a US based source, I doubt they are GMO free, regardless of claims.  GMO free soybeans are basically impossible to grow in the US.  They are virtually always tainted with the pollen of GMO soy while in the field, and if seeds are saved from year to year, are pretty much guaranteed to be GMO.  Quite possibly the same story for the various grains used.  I would demand lab proof showing GMO free results.  Otherwise, you are just paying a huge premium for something that has the same basic food value as most common pond pellets.

 

AJ Grottke said:

Because of all this i ended up buying the only non-gmo/mostly organic fish feed i could find; but it cost me (expensive as hell). The ingredients are:

Organic soybean meal, menhaden fish meal, rice, organic sorghum, organic peas, organic millet, organic oats, organic barley, organic canola oil, organic flaxseed, herring oil, sea salt, organic  carrots, organic blueberries, organic cranberries, organic spinach,  (all “organic” from here) parsley, rose hips dried kelp, dl methionine, calcium phosphate, spirulina, marigold petals, calcim carbonate, vitamine e supplement, choline chloride, ferrous sulfate, niacin riboflavin, copper proteinate, zinc sulphate, vitamine b-12, asorbic acid, vitamine c, taurine manganese-sulphate, nician riboflavin, copper proteinate, copper sulphate, calcium pantothenate, vitamine a, acetate, inositol, folic acid, pyridoxine hydrochloride, thimine mononitrate, vitamine d supplement, rosmary extract, biotin, potassium iodide, cobalt sulphate, sodium selenite

I could not risk ever putting any GMO into my system, so i got this feed.  I like this feed also because it is really diverse, contains medicinal herbs, berries, spirulina, and kelp.  We'll c how the tilapia go for it in a few weeks when i try it.  It has %32 Protein and is a floating pellet.

[AJ Grottke]

The link is to the feed: http://www.lilypons.com/Lilypons-Natural-Organic-Koi-Goldfish-Food/...

And it does cost an arm and a leg. 

Kellen, i always think about the pollination issue with non-GMO corn and soy!  Many do not think about this aspect, and look at me like a quack when i bring something like this up. I tend to agree with you that they almost always get contaminated with GMO pollen.  I really like that someone else thinks about these things, as i do :)  I applaud you for your thorough thought processes. With that said, it is certified by Oregon Tilth, which is a respectable cert agency, but it does not assure this cross-pollination issue.  I will have to see if i can get a lab-test, which is a good idea. Would i talk to the company that makes the feed, or the cert agancy about this?  Can send samples of the feed (and other things that i eat, like OG corn or OG soy) to a lab myself? 

I will say that even if this has been cross-polonized it is still the feed that i would choose from what ive seen so far.  It doesnt have any land-animal meat and it contains many things that "a basic food value as most common pond pellets" do not contain (which ARE organic).  I would be trying to feed flax, spirulna, kelp, blueberries, cranberries, medicinal herbs, etc to  my fish to diversify their diet.  Im not sure if they would eat some of that stuff if it wasnt in pellet form.  Thus it saves me time, as well as having it in a form they will eat.

Also about the GMO contaminated corn and soy,  there ARE non-contaminated seeds available, so it is possible to grow these plants without GMO pollination, but it must be done carefully. But I do think it is only a matter of time till corn, soy, alfalfa, sugar beets gene pools are completely contaminated with GMO.

[Scott lemonds]

Amen to that

TCLynx said:

I think to a large extent we may find that many animals being fed the genetically modified corn and soy are not as healthy.  Including us.

Scott lemonds said:

Tilapia are not bad for you ,but tilapia fed corn seem to be.I would surmise tilapia fed geneticaly altered corn even more so.

 

[Kellen Weissenbach]

Fear of "land animal" ingredients are frankly overplayed as well, primarily by folks trying to sell expensive or gimmick fish food.  The fact is, many fish DO eat "land animals" in the wild, and in some cases, quite routinely.  However, how many fish do you know of in the wild that eat soy, millet, cranberries, blueberries, flax, carrots, oats, barley, canola oil, spinach, rose hips, parsley, marigold petals, "medicinal herbs", etc. in the wild?  I'd say that's pretty rare.  Also, if these ingredients were so high quality and full of nourishment, I don't believe you'd see an entire medicine cabinet list of vitamin and mineral supplements added to the feed.... which looks to me to be more than 50% of the ingredients list.

 

In the pursuit of a more "natural diet" for our fish, I'd say we often get it the other way around... and simply end up paying more money for foods that offer no true additional value than most commodity ones.  With this particular diet, I would tend to say that is the case too.

AJ Grottke said:

The link is to the feed: http://www.lilypons.com/Lilypons-Natural-Organic-Koi-Goldfish-Food/...

And it does cost an arm and a leg. 

Kellen, i always think about the pollination issue with non-GMO corn and soy!  Many do not think about this aspect, and look at me like a quack when i bring something like this up. I tend to agree with you that they almost always get contaminated with GMO pollen.  I really like that someone else thinks about these things, as i do  I applaud you for your thorough thought processes. With that said, it is certified by Oregon Tilth, which is a respectable cert agency, but it does not assure this cross-pollination issue.  I will have to see if i can get a lab-test, which is a good idea. Would i talk to the company that makes the feed, or the cert agancy about this?  Can send samples of the feed (and other things that i eat, like OG corn or OG soy) to a lab myself? 

I will say that even if this has been cross-polonized it is still the feed that i would choose from what ive seen so far.  It doesnt have any land-animal meat and it contains many things that "a basic food value as most common pond pellets" do not contain (which ARE organic).  I would be trying to feed flax, spirulna, kelp, blueberries, cranberries, medicinal herbs, etc to  my fish to diversify their diet.  Im not sure if they would eat some of that stuff if it wasnt in pellet form.  Thus it saves me time, as well as having it in a form they will eat.

Also about the GMO contaminated corn and soy,  there ARE non-contaminated seeds available, so it is possible to grow these plants without GMO pollination, but it must be done carefully. But I do think it is only a matter of time till corn, soy, alfalfa, sugar beets gene pools are completely contaminated with GMO.

[Kellen Weissenbach]

I would love to hear someone actually say WHY they believe this could be the case.  If it has the same nutritional value as non-GMO, I would love to hear how folks think this is even possible.

 

The primary issue with GMO foods is that they narrow and potentially destroy the natural and time-improved gene pool for plants and animals that are genetically altered, or when non-GMO populations are crossed with GMO ones, either intentionally or accidentally, through breeding or open pollination.  It's a HUGE issue and one to be very concerned about.  However, you're not going to see "less healthy" animals because they consumed GMO corn or soy rather than non-GMO corn or soy unless they have significant enough differences in their nutritional value.

 

 

Scott lemonds said:

Amen to that

TCLynx said:

I think to a large extent we may find that many animals being fed the genetically modified corn and soy are not as healthy.  Including us.

Scott lemonds said:

Tilapia are not bad for you ,but tilapia fed corn seem to be.I would surmise tilapia fed geneticaly altered corn even more so.

 

[Scott lemonds]

Human beings need to  understand that the earth is a living biocomputer with all plants and animals functioning as programs in a system,The code is written in dna ,and alterations in one program affect the whole.

 

My personal experience with this issue ,has to do with a woman who wastaken off all medications and given 3 months to live from end stage liver disease.Its now been 16 months ,and one identifiable thing  that was changed  was she stopped eating tilapia.It was neither alcohol or tilapia caused her disease .Her son worked for me and happened to be in my office when i was trying to make a case  for importation of the jade perch with my state dnr .After he heard me cite  ski chiltons research,he asked me for the website .Come to find out tilapia had been a main part of her diet for three years.It was her main source of protein.

.While The tilapia may adapt to these changes on a cellular level  It would seem humans  may not so much and especially certain geno haplotypes are effected more than others.As for me I would like to stay in the au natural  control group.

As far as nutritional value  I'm sure  burnt to ashes gmo and burnt to ashes natural  contain the same amount of energy

Its more about how the proteins and peptides transfer that energy in the body that should concern us.What happens if you try to upload microsoft programs on an apple?Both systems can be used by humans,have a lot of the same capabilities,can even be plugged into the same electrical outlet.

Until bankers understand we can not eat drink or breath  a dollar bill  our species is in peril.

 

Kellen Weissenbach said:

I would love to hear someone actually say WHY they believe this could be the case.  If it has the same nutritional value as non-GMO, I would love to hear how folks think this is even possible.

 

The primary issue with GMO foods is that they narrow and potentially destroy the natural and time-improved gene pool for plants and animals that are genetically altered, or when non-GMO populations are crossed with GMO ones, either intentionally or accidentally, through breeding or open pollination.  It's a HUGE issue and one to be very concerned about.  However, you're not going to see "less healthy" animals because they consumed GMO corn or soy rather than non-GMO corn or soy unless they have significant enough differences in their nutritional value.

 

 

Scott lemonds said:

Amen to that

TCLynx said:

I think to a large extent we may find that many animals being fed the genetically modified corn and soy are not as healthy.  Including us.

Scott lemonds said:

Tilapia are not bad for you ,but tilapia fed corn seem to be.I would surmise tilapia fed geneticaly altered corn even more so.

 

[Ryan Chatterson]

I hear mystery stories like this all the time from customers. There are far too many environmental factors for me to ever believe that this lady's problem was eating tilapia. I believe people get to a point when they just want to blame it on something and the first thing that looks like it could have anything to do with their problem ends up being blamed for the whole thing. It probably helped her mentally but thats about it.

[TCLynx]

The biggest issue with GMO is mainly to do with the fact that the government has decided that it is substantially similar to natural without any scientific evidence.  There are possible major repercussions of this tinkering that we are not likely to realize for some time but it's already probably too late to stop those from escaping into the environment and it can take quite a while for the process of selection to sort things out.

 

And there have also been signs that the products of these GMO plants are NOT the same as the non-gmo counterparts and that they could actually be dangerous to us and the environment bees and other insects.

 

Now the fact that the round up ready GMO's are encouraging the spraying of more and more herbicides onto our crops is definitely a bad thing in my estimation since it means more herbicide residues in the foods as well as in the environment and it is also creating more and more herbicide resistant weeds!!!!!

[AJ Grottke]

I dont want to get too deep into this, but GMO consumption DOES affect the animal consuming it.  They have done many tests on lab rats which have shown signs of infertility, abnormal growth, and other things when fed a GMO diet.  Also there have been reports of cattle and other livestock deaths by switching from regular feed to GMO feed.  None of this has been tested on humans, but im not getting paid to be a test subject, so why should i test drive their untested products?  I feel that this GMO shit isnt good for ne thing it touches. Pay me alot of money to eat GMO's and tell me its experimental then maybe ill understand.  We should not be tested on for free, or without our consent.  Its untested, genetically altered, and normally used e-coli to make it possible.

Now on the natural side of things, its all BS.  Do you think any cultivated fish is natural? Do you think eating bananas if you live in Northern USA is natural?  No its not.  Nothing is natural except living in the rainforest and being in a hunter/gatherer society.  Natural is the same a OG, a marketing shame!  We as human are like poodles, a breed that lives in the confines of security which would rarely occur in a "natural" setting.  With that said, im not trying to be natural at all, i could care less.  I grow food using inputs i buy from somewhere else.  Ive come to terms with not living in a natural world.  I would like to try and provide the organisms i grow with a diverse nutrient load and with respect.  Thats it.  And i realize that if im changing the natural settings of a organism (growing fish in a plastic tank) then other things will have to change in order to attempt to compensate for this shift.  Like a change in diet for example, to something that isnt natural, because they are not being grown naturally.  Back to the people eating bananas analogy; native American survived fine in a hunter/gatherer based lifestyle.  There was no diabetes, no obesity, little or no cancer.  They did not think to eat a banana to improve health because they were already healthy living off their natural diet and would have to go way out of their way to get one.  Nowadays, since we have an unnatural lifestyle, and diets con composed of refined foods, we are sickened with obesity, cancer, etc.  So doctors suggest pharmaceuticals, or healthy eating, something such as a banana.  Though this banana would be an "unnatural" food to most of us the the northern USA, many people would say "Oh your being healthy by eating a banana."  And you are supplementing your diet with nutrients that are good for you which your not getting because we are living in an "unnatural" setting.  To summarize, an unnatural setting will require unnatural inputs in order to sustain that setting.

"The fact is, many fish DO eat "land animals" in the wild, and in some cases, quite routinely." ??? I havent seen any tilapia eating chickens the last time i checked Kellen.  And if they did it wouldn't be factory farmed chicken caged and fed GMO's.  If you know of any actually feed up to your "natural" standards Kellen, please, let us know.  Id love to buy some.  Im trying my best, but i dont think ground up chickens and large quantities of GMOs are any good.  I dont want to feed my animals pain and suffering.  The way the land-animals are harvested that would go into these fish feeds is horrific.  Fish harvesting may not be the best (for the fishmeal), but i believe it is better(not best but better). This is because at least they weren't born to suffer and their feed conversion ratio is much more efficient than land-animals thus making better use of the limited food supply on the earth. Suffering is prolonged and accentuated in these land-animals lives.  I dont want anything to do with that disrespect for life.